Father's Day Episode! ADHD and Fatherhood featuring Brendan Mahan

In this special Father's Day episode of the Men's ADHD Support Group podcast, Founder and President, Marc Almodovar hosts an engaging discussion on fatherhood and ADHD. Featuring insights from Brendan Mahan of ADHD Essentials and Shane Thrapp of Creating Order From Chaos, our conversation dives into the challenges and nuances of being an ADHD dad, effective communication strategies with partners, families, and friends, managing emotional dysregulation, and maintaining a healthy balance of responsibilities within our lives.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to ADHD and Fatherhood
• 1:42 Brendan Mahan's Experience as a Dad with ADHD
• 3:06 Challenges of Parenting with ADHD and OCD
• 7:50 Shane Thrapp's Journey with ADHD and Parenting
• 12:52 Balancing Responsibilities and Avoiding Burnout
• 24:46 Navigating Co-Parenting with a Non-ADHD Partner
• 28:59 Navigating Fatherhood with ADHD
• 30:30 Challenges of Co-Parenting with ADHD
• 33:38 Communication Strategies for ADHD
• 35:28 Understanding and Using External Tools
• 43:10 Managing Emotional Dysregulation
• 44:20 The Importance of Understanding ADHD
• 56:10 Owning Your ADHD
• 58:51 Final Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

 Welcome everyone to the men's ADHD support group meeting tonight we are  talking about fatherhood and what it means to be a dad, as someone with ADHD. Now I'm coming at this meeting looking from the outside, I am not a daddy yet. 

But I will say that. I was raised by a dad with ADHD,  and my dad is definitely somebody who,  I mean, much of our childhood, when he's like, when he was dropping me off at school, or we were on our way, leaving the house would take almost 15 to 20 minutes because he would realize as soon as he got by the car that he forgot his keys, or you know, like, I'm that person.

Something else that you needed that day. And, and it was just, it was just the whole experience being raised by a dad with ADHD. So  I am, I am really, really curious as far as the things that you guys have to say on this subject. And I'm also  kind of taking notes on the things to prepare for as I, the day that I step into a fatherhood role, but that said. 

I will start off with you Brendan. Brendan, what is,  what's it like to be a dad with ADHD?  

Yeah, I mean, I,  it's interesting that you started with time pressure, right? With, or with time. Because I think that that's a thing that gets a lot of dads in one way or another. And for your dad, it was like, all right, we gotta go.

And I'm gonna 20 minutes before we leave. And for other dads, it's like, we gotta go. Get out the door right now. Why aren't we leaving? You know, like it can kind of go both ways. For me as a dad, like,  I don't know, I had it like, my dad was pretty good, my mom, my mom, my, both of my parents were pretty solid parents, and I think that that's helpful, right, I think  that informs my parenting and also, they didn't know about ADHD, they didn't know I had ADHD, so they did stuff wrong, even though they didn't want to or intend to, that's just the nature of an undiagnosed disorder you And so  on for my end on parenting, it's more about trying to meet my kids where they are and then recognizing that there's skills that are missing. 

And how do we get those skills? And my, my parents kind of did that, but not as much as I really needed them to because  they weren't, the ADHD part wasn't recognized. And my, my parenting stuff is, has been a bit of a ride as I don't know that I've talked about this in the men's group yet. Can I, is it okay if I go there?

You guys know.  So, all right. And it's, it's public. Like, it's not like it's a secret. My kids are okay with me talking about it. 

So, my guys, I have identical twin sons who are 15 years old right now. And one of my sons has, I can't even say one of them. Both of my sons have obsessive compulsive disorder.

I've got one kid with OCD and ADHD and one kid with OCD. like a much lighter touch of OCD and also a light touch of autism. So  Nate has like significant OCD, like to the point that he was hospitalized for it. So we're, we're talking like in the shower for three hours cause he couldn't come out, washing his hands at the sink and crying for 40 minutes cause he doesn't want to be washing his hands, but he doesn't want to stop.

Right. That level of OCD. Gavin's OCD is just a little more like.  Like, last night we were watching a movie in the yard, and we have we've got like a sunroom, right? So he's very, his, one of his things is like, both of those doors have to be shut or we're gonna get mosquitoes in the house. So if someone leaves, like, the inside door open, but they, but the outside door shuts, he'll go into the sunroom and close that inside door, as though it's gonna, like, prevent mosquitoes.

And it, that's just his thing. It's nothing, it's not debilitating like Nate's was. His stuff is more quirky.  And so, with Nate, it was a really hard road, kind of. I had to learn about OCD. I had to learn about anxiety in a totally new way. And I had to unlearn a lot of my ADHD stuff, because ADHD is a disorder that very often, like, Hey, well, if that's hard, like, let's do it in an easier way.

Like, why are we doing everything hard? Like some, we were going to have to do some stuff hard, but a lot of  ADHD, at least to my approach is like, well, let's figure out how to make, make it easier to get to the end goal. Right.  If you do that with OCD, the anxiety just goes, Oh, you're going to make it easier.

You're going to make it. So I don't have to do that thing. Cause that thing is overwhelming and it's not that important anyway. Dope. Then this thing that is important is going to also be overwhelming and I'm going to make it so that you're going to have to struggle to do that. And then once that domino falls, I'll go on to the next domino.

Right. And the next thing, you know, you're. showering for three hours. And you're like, there was a time when he wouldn't walk on the streets outside of our house because the school bus drove on him. Because the nature of Nate's OCD is, it's this thing called emotional contagion OCD, where contagion is germs.

So you take the germs out and put something else in. That's emotional contagion.  For him, it was his elementary school. So the school buses spread the germs.  And it was a really hard road. It was really, really long and really, really brutal. And my ADHD didn't help, but it also didn't necessarily always hinder.

I'm a uniquely skilled and suited person to be navigating difficult parenting based on what I do. It was still really hard. I don't know how parents who don't have the background knowledge that I have handle it.  It must be completely overwhelming. But yeah, so that like, That's not necessarily ADHD dadding, but it's just being dad, this is what happened.

And now we're, now he's better, he's, the two of them are freshman in high school doing really well. Like, we kind of cleaned everything up during eighth grade and finished cleaning it up by about midway through freshman year. And they're doing great. And now it's, now I'm  having to father them in a way that is different from how I've been  dadding them. 

Like, I am now at the point where, because for, for pacing,  COVID hits when they're in fifth grade.  Sixth grade, I homeschool them. Seventh grade is overwhelmed by OCD.  Nate is in the hospital until October of eighth grade. Eighth grade is kind of, we're still healing. Even into freshman year, we're healing. We are finally healed and have been healed for a little while.

So now it's time to grow, right? And that's what I mean when I say fathering, right? Like  I have to be really compassionate and really caring and really kind and really like helping my kids heal that part I've moved through. And now I have to help them grow, which is still a dad job.

Right. But it's a bit different. I have to, I'm finding that I have to start teaching them how to be young men and they don't know. And that's because we had so much stuff going on for like four years that I, we, those little lessons that would have otherwise been imparted just weren't imparted. And so now it's kind of, I got to start teaching a whole lot of little lessons in a really short period of time.

And, and so that's kinda,  that's my lens right now  as a father.  

So much to, to unpack and that's why I stopped.  

I appreciate you sharing your perspective and definitely excited to hear your takes on various subjects within this Category tonight, but I just wanted to give some others opportunities to share.

And I will go next with Shane. If you're able to right now, I know you're grilling right now.  

I mean, isn't that like the ultimate dad thing to be doing though? Right? 

Such a stereotype. 

What is your experience with fatherhood as. 

I think my experience with fatherhood, I mean,  whereas I didn't have to deal with OCD, right, I did have to deal with, you know, being in an abusive relationship with my first two kids, mom,  and then  being undiagnosed ADHD, undiagnosed autistic, and dealing with,  A person who understood how to manipulate and  make me the bad guy, because I couldn't control my emotional regulation. 

Right. And I,  you know, I screwed up with my first two kids  severely,  and I'm still dealing with the aftermath of that,   they're functionally estranged. Now we've started building a relationship recently in the last year, but.  I lost five, six years of their life for a big chunk of it,  where things were just fucked up,

and even when I was there, I wasn't there the way they needed me to be. And  that caused a lot of issues. And,   now I have twins with my new wife. Well, I say my new wife, we've been married for a decade.  Now my wife and I have a twin, five year olds.  And I functionally get to start over and both of my kids have a lot of different signs of different things,  but I still find my emotional regulation every now and then it's just like, Hey, what's up?

So like my son wants a snack the other day. I'm like, yeah, go ahead and get a snack. And he comes back and he's just livid. He's just irate.  And.  I could not get him to speak in any kind of words.  And, a lot of things I've actually learned actually comes from Brendan, thank you by the way.

But I was just like, all right, hold on a second. Let's just, let's see if we can ask him. Yes. No questions. All right. Don't you like blueberries?  Yeah, yeah. I love blueberries. Okay, cool. All right. All right. What about it is messing you up?  Is it stale? No. All right.

Cool.  Can you explain to daddy what was wrong? And he's just like, it's broken. And  I stopped the eye roll because  it was there. It wanted,  oh my God, you're fucked off because the Nutri-grain bar is broken in half and that's what's messing you up. And I'm like, he doesn't need that right now. 

Okay. All right. Cool. Your sister has hers and she hasn't taken her bite out of it. It's whole. Do you want to just trade with her? Yeah, Alright.  Ask her if you can trade with her. Harley, can I trade mine with you? And Harley's like, sure. And it was just problem solved. But it was just like seeing that initial reaction to a broken Nutri Grain bar  and recognizing my reaction now versus what it would have been because I would have yelled at him, like, get the fuck over it,  you know, but. 

It was, it was different and I was able to react the way that I needed to react. And  it's a lot of stuff like that. And, if my emotional regulation hadn't been taken care of,  like I've been needing it to be.  It would have been significantly worse.  And so it's just,  it's good to see that.

And that's kind of like the overall thing,  right? It's been a thousand different circumstances like that  of just  taking time to figure out.  What's wrong, and then being there for it and  celebrating all those those small wins that I normally would have been like, Oh, cool. They're yay. 

But  taking time to actually celebrate them and getting them used to celebrating them. And  I think that's been the game changer for me. It's just taking it time to celebrate the wins for what they are and teaching them that there's no such thing as a small win.  And  that's been it, that's the thing.

 Love that.  Yeah. Especially the small win thing that you just said, like a win is a win period.  And that's, that's such an important mindset for people with ADHD to have, especially since we live in a world where we just frequently beat ourselves up for almost every little thing. So I, I really, really love that, that That's not a parent thing and always love your perspective Shane.

All right, so so then I'm going to step into my curious side. 

So, Brendan, this 1 is for you.

So, I know, I think I know you pretty, pretty decently at this point, and I've seen you in person quite a bit and at the conference, you are no doubt you're nothing short of a busy man.   Your podcast and your entrepreneurship and everything like that. Whenever  I'm hearing you speak.  About things you've got going on.

My first thought is how the hell does this dude manage his time as a dad and not absolutely burn himself out  with the level of responsibility that you take on? Like,  what keeps you afloat here  with the level of responsibility that you juggle?  

I think there's a few different components to that.  One component. So one, I did burn out, right? Like, I burned out hard but that, like, I'm about a year out of that, right? I'm a little more than that. I'm a little, I'm a year and a half, maybe a little more out of that. And I'm finally not burned out anymore.

I finally recovered from it. But, like, all the stuff that went on with Nate was really rough. And at the same time, my dad was having health issues that he, that required me to help, right?  And then once Nate was better, my dad's health got worse. And it, so like it wrecked me because I had no predictability and I couldn't manage my time.

Cause I never knew when I was going to have to go like take my dad to the doctors or something. So I like, couldn't bring on new clients, couldn't start any new  initiatives or anything like that. I burned out really hard. And I've put myself back together. And in putting myself back together a few, there's a few things that kind of kept, have  kept, keep me going and keep me from burning out professionally, I guess. 

Cause my previous burnout was like, I can only help so much and that's killing me. Right. There's a definite ceiling. Now it's more of like, the stuff that I'm taking on. I'm when it's under my control, I'm doing these things on purpose. They're by choice, that kind of stuff.  And so the things that keep me afloat are I am motivated by helping people.

I like helping people recharges me. It helps me. It helps me heal. Right. So that's a big piece of it.  And also Like I, it, it helps that I have the stature in this industry that I have.  That is, that's no small thing for me. And it's no small motivator for me. I take it as a point of pride and I take it as a point of responsibility to be serving this community in the way that I need to be with integrity and with dignity and with kindness and compassion.

And so that, like, that's, those are all values and that when you're leading, when you're coming from a place of values, you're usually doing okay. In terms of spreading myself as thin as I do, yeah, not great. not always doing that the way did not always perfect, but I've learned to set boundaries, right?

Like even on this. In this group, I'm like, look, this is what I can do.  The end, like, that's what I can do. And I, do I do a little more sometimes? Yes, but I'm pretty transparent about  this is where my wall, my boundaries are. I'll go past them every now and then, but this is what can be expected.

And so that like, that's in this group. That's also, I'm on a, I'm on the board of directors for an event called Comicon, which is a sensory sensitive pop culture and comics event in Boston. And like, my job is to bring in professional resources. So mental health, people, tutors, that kind of stuff  for the parents to be connected to.

I already have that network for the most part. So I'm able to lean into that network and bring people in and do just enough. Right. And let the rest of the team do more, do other stuff. In my business, like I'm building a team, right? Like Shane is part of that team. Shane is my social media guy. Right.

And we meet on Mondays and talk about.  Sometimes it's just what's going on. And sometimes it's social media stuff. It kind of depends on  what's more important. And some of me not burning out is like, I'm not in a rush.  So if Shane and I are like, we're going to do this big important thing. And then one of us is like, I don't really want to do that big important thing because like stuff is happening in my life, I'm like, cool, whatever.

We'll do the big important thing later. It's fine.  Whatever. And that is helpful. And that some of that speaks to my wife, like I married well, and my wife is neurotypical. And she makes enough money for me to be able to not always make enough money. And that's good.  And also like my kids are better, that helps.

Even the book, right? Like I've got help with the book. I've got a co writer with the book. I've got to finally have a virtual assistant. Like building a team is part of it. Like no one is playing at the level that I'm playing at. And no one is playing at higher levels than me without having a team.

And that team is important. And it, that it's not just professional.  It's also personal, right? Like part of my team is my wife. She's part of the personal team with the boys. They've got teachers and stuff that are engaged with them. Now they are, my boys are part of my team because they can take care of their damn selves, like they're 15.

I can now give them directives and they can go and do it. And if they don't know how they'll ask and they'll come back and check, but they're, I can trust them to go do stuff. Nate had a D in English.  Like a month ago. And we were like, Oh, that's not, that doesn't work. Like what, let's fix this. And he needed a little bit of support from me, but for the most part, he all by himself got it up to a B minus. 

So like that's team as well. And then friends and family and stuff all count as part of the team. So some of it too,  is having a team and knowing who to turn to for support and those sorts of things.  

And another piece that is very ADHD,  I mostly have my hyperactivity trained at this point,   I've got the, the bumpers in the bowling alley lane for him, like, my hyperactivity, I can use it to activate And do stuff when I need to, and I can do that stuff at a bananas clip and drop in a hyper focus when necessary.

I can mostly use it to  good instead of for tearing me apart. So that's there too.  

Love it, Brendon. Love it. Now, Shane, what about you as another?  Busy man who takes on a lot of different responsibilities. What is managing your time and energy as a dad with ADHD look like?

For me,  a lot of managing my time is leaning on my wife to be completely truthful. You know, like, especially now, summertime's hitting us, right? So the kids are going to be home.  And so I won't have as much time during the day to be able to do a lot of the stuff that I normally do during the day. So now it's just  balancing that.

And then when Darcy gets done with school, getting back into the groove of things, her taking care of the kids during the day, me giving her breaks at night, because that's the big key that I've learned for, My family is for me to really intentionally recognize that my wife needs breaks too. 

And making sure that I'm saving that space to at least say, Hey, do you need to go lay down? Do you need to rest?  You know, do you need to take some time to yourself? And if she says no, she's good.  Take that as it is because  my wife isn't the person to sit here and say, no, I'm fine and not mean it  because we've had that communication because I,  like, if you tell me you're okay, I'm going to take you after word for it because social cues ain't there.

So if I ask you, then that's I'm asking and I need to know. And if you.  Don't communicate that, then don't get mad at me later on down the road whenever I take you at your word.  And my wife took that to heart and she said, you know, I will make sure that I say when I need that space  and I'll, okay, cool. 

And then respecting that. As soon as she sits there and says, hey, I need a break. All right, give me 15 minutes to wrap up what I'm working on and then I'll be out there and you can go lay down whatever you need  and  that's been the key right there is just making sure that the partnership that I have with my wife,  both of us are aware of where our spoons are at. 

And if my wife needs help, then I help. And if she knows that if I need help to,  I will come to her and say something, and if I do, she does a lot of the same things, give me 30 minutes and I'll be right there and you can go do what you need to do.  So a lot of balancing my time is balancing my relationship with my wife.

And that's just communicating really clearly about the different things that we need when we need them.  And then making sure that we also take our time to ourselves to when her parents are in town, we are really working hard to kind of go on little dates and stuff like that and getting a babysitter and going on dates and  because she works hard.

And a lot of the work I do is more in the nonprofit realm, so my money isn't,  a lot, and even as a coach, I'm on the lower end of the pay scale, even though Brendan tells me I should charge way more,   I still have a need to help people, and that recharges my batteries, so a lot of the work I do is in the comment sections in the men's group, and it's writing blogs, and different things of that nature. 

And  so, yeah, it's just leaning on my friends and doing body doubling and focus one on one and being in the discord and like me and Dave have been really spending a lot of time like he'll be in a discord and I'll jump in there and we'll just kind of hang out for a little bit  and, you know,  Leaning on my friends, making sure I'm making time for a friend time, and then making sure that I'm going to sleep at a decent time so that I have the energy the next day to be able to spend time with my kids the way that they need it. 

So it's just kind of a overall similar to what I have to do with ADHD to manage that the tools that I've learned through that have been also been able to help me to be a better father and be there for my kids and my wife and my friends. 

Interesting. So when you were talking, Shane, there was a lot of mention about communication and how you work with your.  And that said, I have a question for the two of you Brendan and Shane, and if anybody else has a perspective on this, feel free to raise your hand to either ask a question or comment.

 There's a lot of members in our group that struggle with this right here. And it's.  

How do you navigate co parenting with a partner who may not have ADHD? 

Brendan, you want to take that?  

Yeah, let me, let me play. 

So I'm, I'm going to start with, I'm going to start by going off to the side, because I think it frames things in a way that's important. The, like the traditional expectations of masculinity  get messed up by ADHD. And that, I think it's important that we  start there, right? So.  When you think masculinity in like the, western version of it, certainly the American version, we're looking at things like independence and self sufficiency, right?

Which, if you're an ADHD dad, that's going to be hard,  right? Like, you're not going to be the Marlboro man.  And if you are the Marlboro man, it's because You're not fitting into mainstream society, not because you're like just that independent. And probably the Marlboro man was not fitting in with mainstream society.

And that's a nice, maybe a useful reframe for those of us who want to be that guy in can be. Physical prowess too, right? Like a lot of people with ADHD have comorbidities that make that tricky that like, you've got dyspraxia and stuff and you're having trouble with fine motor control and those sorts of things.

There's an expectation that you're going to be tough and resilient.  And people with neurodiverse challenges, like we're asked to be resilient all the time, just to exist in the neurotypical world. And that can burn us out and make us jaded and make us sort of standoffish. And that can be like mistaken for tough, but isn't necessarily, or we can, when it's time to be tough, we might be so worn down that it's difficult for us  to actually be that tough guy that we want to be right. 

And there's also the expectation, like, when we kind of move from the, barbarian warrior king to the, into the scholarly king, right?  We're also expected to be intellectual and logical and emotionally restricted and all that stuff. And, like, that is difficult when there's a emotional dysregulation  going on. 

And then folks who are men are also expected to be that financially successful person, which ADHD can undermine pretty effectively. So, I think it's important that we kind of take that lens, right? And I'm not, I'm not saying that we can't do those things, because certainly we can. But they're potentially going to be more difficult, and if you're someone who's looking for guidance and more support in a group like the Men's ADHD Support Group, probably some of this stuff is, you're finding is difficult. 

And that's okay, right? Because those expectations of masculinity don't have to be what masculinity is.  That they're not necessarily real, like, and a lot of men that we think are super tough or super successful or whatever aren't, right, like, yeah, cool, great, you're like the most financially successful person in the whole wide world, but you're not connected to your family at all, or you don't have one, right, and that's now where we're going with fatherhood.

So that piece is there.  And another component to that is when we are not meeting with those areas in the way that we feel like we should, we often, then the dysregulation comes in because now I feel less than, now I feel ashamed, now I feel bad, right? And, and that leads to  not communicating clearly with my wife because I can't, because there's too much guilt and shame in there and I can't say things that I feel that I maybe need to say, but I can't say it because I feel bad.

Bad about it. I think that stuff is playing a prominent role,  potentially, in some of the challenges when it comes to navigating those relationships and co parenting and all that stuff. And also,  just the like, I'm supposed to be the tough guy, so I guess I'll  be the hammer. When it comes to parenting  and like, if that's all, you know,  everything's going to be a nail, right.

Cause another piece of this is men aren't taught how to parent. Women are taught how to parent as girls. They're taught how to parent men are not taught how to parent.  And so we become a father's and now the expectations have changed. Now we're expected to father, right. We're expected to be dad.

We didn't like in the eighties, that's not true. My dad was not expected to be like an actively engaged father. He kind of was, but he wasn't expected to be.  And so we're not taught skills growing up on how to navigate little kids and how to manage, change a diaper and all that stuff. And then all of a sudden we have a kid and we're trying to figure all these things out as we go.

And the women in our lives are like, you just changed the diaper. Why are you so frustrated by our child having a fit? It's like, well, because I've never been around a child that had a fit before, but you have. And so my wife knows, right? In my relationship, I have a ton of experience with kids. I've been working with kids since I was in high school.

So like that stuff was comfortable for me. And it, in some ways, it was a little bit of a reverse with me and my wife. When Nate started having the mental health stuff go on,  And when Gavin did too, that was comfortable for me. I understood it. Cause that's what I do for a living. And my wife was a scientist and works with mice, was like, I don't know what to do with this stuff.

And, and she kind of had her own struggles where she felt like she was supposed to be in that role, but I was the one in that role. And we had that happen, which was interesting. Cause I've often felt like I'm supposed to be making all the money and she does. And so we were kind of gender flipped in some ways.

And does that all make sense? Am I like at least laying a foundation that's useful if not connecting dots? 

100 percent you nailed it, Brendon. That was amazing. I loved everything you said about the masculine roles and the pressure we put on ourselves.  That was outstanding. Thank you. Shane, what about you? 

What's your take on navigating co parenting with a partner who may not have ADHD?  

So my wife doesn't have ADHD, but she is a special needs teacher, so I get to cheat a little bit. 

I think one of the things that I had to learn was my wife's a special needs teacher, so she gets it  and that made her safer for me. One of the biggest struggles that I see in the group is people who deal with a parent, or a spouse who doesn't get it, doesn't want to get it. Doesn't think that it's that big of a deal. 

Doesn't understand why, when we find out late in life, like why,  Are we making such a big deal out of it?  Like for us, a lot of times it like, it helps us explain and understand. Holy crap. I've been dealing with this thing in this entire time,  but sometimes we've also got to recognize that a lot of damage has been already done. 

And  we have to own that. But at the same time,  our partner has to also own it  because some of the damage that's been done has also been on their part by not taking the time to understand,  especially once we find out that there's ADHD involved. Now, do they have a responsibility to understand and things like that?

But if you get hurt, right, if you get physically injured or disabled or something like that, at the same time, like your partner hopefully steps up to help.  But again, if there's been a lot of damage done from our emotional dysregulation or lack of communication, our social  interactions, not having enough spoons, not taking care of the house, like we need to  not being the partner that we need to be, sometimes there's just too much. And I think that was the situation with my ex wife and I was.  When I finally realized that there were things about myself that I needed to work on,  too much damage had been done.

She had gotten too used to being abusive and  had too much ammunition to use against me.  And,  you know, that caused me to be dealing with even more significant emotional dysregulation. Especially with two kids in a mix,  and  a lot of guys in a group really deal with that situation where there is too much damage and  they're dealing with the overwhelm of finding out that they have ADHD   kids that are going through different transitions through elementary and middle school to high school   there's just too much. And.  Sometimes it's just not realistic to expect a relationship to survive that.  

But for those people who are able to get their partner to understand those situations, I think that's one of the strengths of the men's group is. 

A lot of times we see the communication come through a post where it's guy going, how do I explain to my wife, like what ADHD does and,  you know, how do I explain to her what emotional dysregulation is or the rejection sensitivity or, Hey, has anybody noticed that you're hypersexual? And like, how do I navigate that kind of dynamic with my wife who doesn't have as much of a sex drive as I do? 

All of these different questions come through the group and  what we have to kind of understand is like there has to be a redefinition of how we live our lives and you know, Brendan kind of touched on it earlier. A lot of ADHD is figuring out the ways that work for us.  And that means now that we understand this thing about ADHD,  what ways work best for us to communicate,  what ways don't work for us to communicate, what things do we need?

And then having that conversation with our spouse.  And making sure that  if they want to be supportive, this is how you're supportive  and  this is what I need.  But then also understanding that now we have to intentionally.  Make sure we're doing that for them as well,  because now we know,  right  now, we know that executive function is part of our issue  when I am on and my brain is working the way that I need it to work. 

I need to be using that time to make sure that I am going and doing the chores that I need to get done, especially as a stay at home dad, making sure that I am using my Alexa to remind me to, you know, go to the dishes when I need to do them, making sure that I am using my Alexa to remind me to clean the kitchen or do the bathroom and making sure I am setting up those appointments for the kids and taking them where they need to go and getting there on time. 

The only way for me to do that is to make sure that.  My wife understands. Hey, I've got to do this thing. Can you remind me?  And if she remembers to cool, but I still have to use my tools to be able to manage the things that I need to manage.  And now that I know, because of ADHD, that I need external tools and not to depend on my own internal,  calendar and clocks and stuff like that, because they don't exist,  that's been kind of the thing, but also letting my wife understand that I have to have external tools.

Don't expect me to remember to do something in 15 minutes if you don't see me set an alarm for it.  Or if you don't see me ask Alexa to remind me in 15 minutes or something like that, like, so when she asked me to do something, hey, make sure you set an alarm for 15 minutes because I need you to come take care of this XYZ thing. 

And that's taken a lot of time for us to get used to that communication style to do that. It's not just, hey, I need you to do this thing in 15 minutes. It's, hey, set an alarm for 15 minutes  to come do this thing for me.  And it's her knowing  if Shane's not looking at her, he did not hear what she just asked him to do. 

If Shane has a computer screen or a phone screen or  a book or anything like that in front of him,  he may have answered the question,  but he did not hear what was just said in a way that's going to allow him to  actually follow through with whatever he agreed to do.  So whenever she's asking me to, like, take out the trash or something like that, it's, hey, can you pause that for just a second?

I have to ask you a question.  All right, give me 1 minute. And then as soon as I get to a place where I can pause, okay, what do you need me taking time to look at her? We just talked about this in Dave's relationship and communication talk that he did. Is making sure that  she knows how to make, to get my attention without shaming me or making me feel guilty or frustrated or any of those things, just recognizing to get my attention, to pay attention to her without her feeling like she's mothering me, which isn't the other side of the coin.

We don't want our wives to have to mother us.  And I think that's been, I think that's been the biggest key is her taking the time to understand  how I communicate and how to get me to communicate and follow through with the things that I need to follow through using external tools.  And then not just depending on me to  infer that I need to set an alarm, actually make that a part of the communication that she gives me, Hey, set an alarm for 15 minutes because I'm gonna need you to take care of the kids for a little bit. 

It's. It's not me having to remember 15 minutes. It's, Oh, I need to set an alarm right now for 15 minutes to go take care of the kids. And I think that's been the biggest key 

was her understanding those things.  

Well, that chain,  I definitely use Alexa. Actually, I had Alexa going off  right when I started this meeting reminded me I have to take out the garbage.

So I'm a huge, huge believer in the external uses of technology. 

Okay, no problem. I Adam I see you have your your hand up.

What do you have to say or add on fatherhood and ADHD or ask a question?  

Well, I actually wanted to put in the comment and the question to but more with the relationship aspect  I run my own my own group, I call it the heavy hitters, and Brendan, you're sure? I always  throw in your name every once in a while to hit a wall of awful, so you're a heavy hitter for sure. It makes me think of my past relationships where you know what?

There are some cases that there's only some boundaries, some understandings could only have formed up in the beginning. And when I mean the beginning, I mean the conception of the relationship and to reform the view of a person.  ADHD is such an invisible thing.  Not like I'm in a wheelchair that I can't get anything from the second counter.  It's something that people could forget consistently that you have this kind of thing.

And it takes surefire a whole, almost taking on a religion type of transformation on taking it as serious. You put a lot of assertive language on knowing how does your ADC work and pretty much you got it.  Almost sounding like you'd lock it down from beginning to end when I'm at the best and when I need help.

So, that's assertive language. That's things I had to really transform and learn. And it helps me think that there was not a lot of not a lot of help I could have done after the fact on a relationship that has passed on. So, yeah, I wanted to put that in there and will help me in the future relationships.

To know how to work this and make sure the partner understands and how many times I got to reaffirm that and second thing with the fatherhood I don't have children of my own, but I have a brother who has three kids.  Yeah, he's not attending his ADHD tendencies. All his kids, I suspect, have ADHD.  And the struggle that I see he had let's just get to,  he been financially insecure for many times, and he felt  inadequate, felt impotent of failure after failure and after failure, and Yeah, to not have this assertive language for him to get through it.

He's just living life in a reactionary struggle each day. Trying to contend with his wife, trying to contend with his children. One is already turning 18, so it's just  one head of gut and it's a girl too, so.  Yeah, thank you.  

Yeah, it's interesting. You touched on that. I'm actually going to go that direction.

With this discussion shortly. Kyle, did you I saw you put your hand up. Did you have a question you wanted to ask? 

Yes. So, when dealing with ADHD, I may not be a father, but what I know that me and my family. My family, mostly my dad and I have, I've had ADHD and it runs through the family and we tend to forget things and do and act and  sometimes half of this our relationship is good, but like it turned, it sometimes feels like when it comes to 80.

hd. I wanna try to make sure our B boundaries are like well handled or we are understanding it one another because sometimes I sometimes feel like we miscommunicate or I feel like I miscommunicate at some things. I don't wanna feel like I'm damaging a relationship or like a friendship like that.

So is there any suggestions.  On how to manage that that sort of misinformation sort of side.  

Yeah, so you're talking about when you feel misunderstood, maybe?  After like having some type of an emotional dysregulation moment. Am I capturing your question correctly?  Yeah. Okay, yeah, that's actually perfect because that was one of the questions I was going to ask  Shane and Brendan just to segue it into the dad thing and it's just to hopefully provide you value Kyle.

I mean as everybody here knows.  I mean, a lot of us in this zoom meeting right now have studied, I mean, ADHD from the best of the best, right from like Ned Hollowell and Russell Barkley and all that. And there are moments,  although we can do all these things, there are moments in which our ADHD can get the best of us. 

And yeah, just similar to Kyle, I'm just curious to hear your perspectives on how do you handle situations where your ADHD leads to potential misunderstandings or conflicts with your children or spouse?  

This is actually a solid way for me to go into what I was going to say earlier which is  speaking of studying from the best of the best, right? 

The best thing I did is not something I did. It's actually something my wife did. But the best thing we did for our marriage is we went to an ADHD training together. And the reason it was so useful was because my wife, one, took it seriously. She wasn't there like, this is stupid, right? Like, if that's the attitude, then it wouldn't have worked.

But my wife was there willing to listen and willing to learn and all that stuff.  And  in going to the training, it opened up her eyes to how I worked  in a way that was meaningful for her. And in a way that I'm pretty sure has saved our marriage  from a bunch of little fissures and cracks that might have ended it, right?

We don't have the little tiny cracks that would have been ripped open when the big crises hit. So we've been able to navigate those crises and have our marriage be fine. So it's actually, I can't recommend highly enough getting everybody on the same page. And I, I, this is not me pushing my services.

This is just letting you know  that people do it right. Like I, I do trainings where I'm like, bring everybody. And it's the same amount of money. If it's just you, like, I don't, I'm not charging more for private stuff. If it's a workshop for school or something, that's different. And I, I've had grandparents in there, I've had aunts and uncles, I've had best friends, I've had mom and dad and the brothers and sisters,  so that's one thing, and it connects to this, right?

Like, if the people in our lives understand what ADHD is and how it works, they understand better  what we're all about and how we work. And so  that I think is an important thing, assuming they're willing to  participate in that and play along because not every I recognize not everyone's family members, wife, spouse, best friend, whoever is willing to.

But if they are,  it's ADHD. The more we learn about it, the better off we are ourselves for ourselves and for our kids and for our spouses and friends and potentially even our employers.  So, that, that's kind of,  that, that's the thought that I was having that I think connects to what Kyle was asking too. 

Love it.  Shane, what about you? How do you  handle situations where your ADHD may lead to misunderstandings or conflicts with either children or your spouse, et cetera?  

So when it comes to thinking. Emotional situations, disagreements if I have an emotional dysregulation moment where I snap off and pop off and say something stupid,  or  if I'm just down and my emotions are kind of just all over the place. 

A lot of times it's just like letting the people around me know, kind of like what Brendan was talking about, but also  kind of just giving people the heads up. I'll use dating for an example. Once you get into  a happy medium of a place where the relationship is getting somewhere, having a conversation about emotional dysregulation and what it looks like and what can happen.  And then  when it does happen, cause it's going to. 

Even if I don't stop it,  going back,  owning my part of it and apologizing for my part of it,  and, you know, making sure that I explain, sorry about that, the thing that you said really triggered a moment for me, this has to do with what we've talked about in the past,  my bad, I really do apologize. 

Let's talk about the problem  and start working towards the solution of what you were asking me about.  But that's after the fact, right?  It's legitimately saying I'm sorry and being serious about it  and then going, Okay,  I don't want to be mad at you. The situation's screwed up. Let's talk about the situation and what about it we can do anything about. 

Also recognizing when there's not anything you can do or anything about it. Either one of you. Like, it's just a screwed up situation. So, say your family's dealing with a lot of financial issues and  you're just having to live in a small house or something like that and it's just, there's nothing you can do about it right now. 

Alright, we can't control this. Let's just make the best of it as we can.  Dealing with a father or  a parental figure and  wanting to make sure that you have a relationship is a lot like that.  Hey, I'm going to have some moments where I am going to,  misunderstand something you said, or I'm going to hear something you said, and it's going to trigger some emotions that I'm going to deal with. 

If that happens, I will do my best to come back and apologize. You know, I may need to go for a walk. I may need to take some time to myself to cool down and then come back when I'm calmer and have a conversation about it. If I do that, don't press me.  You know, don't keep forcing the issue because when I tell you that, I'm trying my best to keep calm  when my emotions are trying to take over. 

And I think that's been a  big part of it as well with me and my mom, who have like a really  weird relationship. There's things that she's done to me that were really traumatic that sometimes get brought up in really un, you know, unintended ways.  Where I have to go for a walk,  you know,  but I communicated that up front with her, like, Hey mom, if I, if I tell you, I have to go for a walk, then that's me. 

I'm dealing with some emotional issues. I need to go for a walk, calm down, and then come back and have a conversation.  I even had this conversation with my ex wife.  Like, hey,  it's very much that, that having that communication up front,  communicating that, recognizing those things when they start to be overwhelming, or recognize when your emotional dysregulation is starting to get out of control.

And either, and either leaving the situation as quickly as we possibly can using coping mechanisms that we've learned in therapy, hopefully, everybody's getting therapy because that's an important part of managing ADHD.  And then turning around and immediately apologizing when you've calmed down if something like that does happen.

If there's an issue with miscommunication and  people not understanding what you said or something along those lines,  Ask questions.  Do you understand what I mean?  No? Okay. What did you not understand? In a actual place of loving and kindness, to use Dave's terms,  maybe I can clarify something. 

Asking for clarification? If they say something that we thought we understood, but apparently did not? Alright, I misunderstood what you meant by that, apparently, because I didn't do what you asked me to do. What did you need me to do? Because, and, let me make sure I understand it.  Mark's actually doing this a couple of times in here, especially whenever he asked about the clarifying question, Kyle, whenever he did that, that was him making sure he understood where you were coming from  and phrasing it in a way that he understood. 

We have to learn to do the very similar things about the things that we are wanting  to understand is repeating it back in a way that we get. And if that's wrong,  giving them the opportunity to kind of give us the feedback that it's wrong and how it's wrong. 

Yeah, and Shane, I hate to interrupt, but I just want to say that that is especially in the case when we're talking through text. 

Very much so.  

There's a reason why people with ADHD send out fucking blocks of text, because we want to be very clearly understood, but  the other person, if they have ADHD and they see a block of text, it's like, what the fuck, I lost my train of thought halfway through that. So really having to understand that.

And I think that's been one of my biggest things. 

 I just want to say a few words.

I really appreciate you guys helping me out and getting me together and I'm, I really appreciate coming to the meetings. I know I don't come to the meetings often because I'm pretty much busy with other stuff that's been going on in my life. But I guess I, I just have one question, if, when it comes to things that are out of your control when it comes to your ADHD and certain things and trying to interact with people, what's, what would be one piece of advice that you can give me? 

When talking to people in your life about your ADHD?  

Yes.  

Be discerning about who you talk to and who you tell about it. Right? Because not everyone needs to  maybe it's not necessarily the case that not everyone needs to know, but not everyone deserves to know. Not everyone is safe to know. Right? So be discerning about that. If you, if someone has already demonstrated to you that they don't have your best interests at heart,  then telling them is not necessarily going to benefit you.

Right? And so that's one part.  And then when you talk to them about it,  a thing to be mindful of is. We really want to come across clearly  that we are not using ADHD as an excuse, we are using it as a reason.  Where I'm not telling you about my ADHD so that I am excused from all the mistakes that I make and I don't have to feel bad about those mistakes and I don't have to fix the mistake, the problems that my mistakes cause, like  that's not the deal.

The reason that we tell people is so that they understand that we're going to make mistakes.  And that those mistakes are not personal. They're not, it's not us trying to  hurt them and that if we do make a mistake, we will clean up  our stuff. Like, we will do the things that we need to do to fix the problems that we caused and we will be better at fixing those problems if it's safe for us to ask for help when, if, and when we cause them.

And that means that some people need to know we have ADHD so we can ask them for help. That's kind of the vibe we want to be giving and maybe even saying those exact words. So that's 1 piece. If we come across it, we're just saying, well, I have ADHD and that means that I can screw up and it doesn't matter.

Like,  that's not the plan. And then.  And then pay attention to how that conversation goes and make decisions accordingly about how big of a role in your life that those people get to have,  because they're earning their, the size of their role as you talk to them. And it doesn't mean that that size can't change, right?

Like, someone seems like they're saying everything right. And then it turns out later on, they're not doing it like, okay, cool. The role gets smaller. Someone who struggles with this conversation at first, but then later on steps up big. Cool. That role can get bigger. Right. But we want to be mindful of that as we talk to people too.

Does that answer your question in a way that is useful?  

Yes, very much. Well, I got to get going. Thank you again. I have a, oh, you have a wonderful day. You too. Happy father's day.  Thank you.  

You had your hand up before, Brendan, you wanted to say something? 

Yeah, because there's an underlying component to all of this that I think we need to rise to the front. 

And that is we, like, we gotta own our stuff,  right? Like, all the stuff Shane's been saying, the stuff I've been saying, if you're not at peace with your ADHD, like,  It's not going to work. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not at peace with your ADHD, this all gets a lot harder. Because when, when you make a mistake and someone talks to you about it,  you're more likely to get defensive.

And as soon as we get defensive, it's, we're dysregulated and it's off to the races, right? So one piece of this is we've got to be able to come to terms with our ADHD and let it be a reason but not an excuse because if we're trying to make an excuse with it,  we'll know that and it'll dysregulate us because we'll feel guilty.

But you got ADHD, right? My, my favorite example of this is I have asthma, right?  Yeah. Sometimes I, when I'm doing workshops, I'll fake an asthma attack or every now and then I have a real one and I will apologize for being too lazy and unmotivated to breathe.  And then. Yeah, that's usually the response is people start laughing because that's ridiculous, right? 

How is that any different from the way we often treat ADHD? Like an ADHD person forgets to do something, does something halfway,  starts it late, and we're like, oh, too lazy and unmotivated. But that's not what's up. What's up is it's ADHD in the same way that sometimes my lungs don't work as well as I would like them to.

Sometimes my prefrontal cortex does not work as well as I would like it to. And that's okay. 

Yeah. That's a good way to look at it. And we, and we apologize for our ADHD quite often.  

I don't, I almost never apologized for my ADHD. I'll tell people. I'll say, yeah, it's because I have ADHD. Like, that's why that happened.

In the same way that I'll say, yeah, it's because I have asthma. That's why I can't breathe right now. And it's because it's a reason. And, the other piece to this that I, that is especially important for men to hear  is we are not the main character.  Your life will get so much easier if you stop thinking of yourself as the main character.

There will still be times, like you get to be the main character still, on occasion, but the less we try to be the main character, and the more we view ourselves as a supporting character in someone else's story, who is the main character,  the easier stuff gets. I know of the areas of my life where I'm still feeling like I'm the main character, and those are the areas of my life that I, fight with the most.

Where I find the most pain. It's stress and anxiety, and I'm working on putting those those areas down and eventually I will, but, but it's just easier if you're like, I'm a character in the story, but I'm not the main character. It takes a lot of pressure off. It gives you a lot of emotional distance to use to regulate. 

Love that perspective.  Love it. All right. We are going to be approaching a point where we're wrapping up. So just please use this time to  raise your hand and share any final thoughts or questions you may have Bo I did see you just had your, your hand up and I wanted to give you a chance to comment with what you wanted to say or ask what you wanted to ask. 

Hi, my name's Bo. I think it's really important that you share  a working idea of your own ADHD,  because if you share a partial idea, if you don't have plans for yourself, It's very hard for anyone else to understand.  And that's true of every relationship. It's certainly true of relationships with children.

Although,  I want to thank all of you guys, because it's very hard to not be the demon in your own opera. Yep. And this chance to see how other people do it matter of factly how they face themselves, how they accept themselves is tremendously powerful.  I see all sorts of people having relationship problems and coming into this halfway or discovering ADHD halfway into a relationship is almost always a doom for the relationship  because the journey is just too hard for anyone else to take. 

Well said. Well said. And that, that segues into the tip that I wanted to leave you all with. I'm not a dad with ADHD. I went into this with a little bit more of a curious mindset. But the one thing that I will say is that navigating ADHD can be really tough.  It's not an easy thing to do. And  that only gets  more challenging and I promise I'm not trying to paint this with the victim mentality.

I'm just being real here, but that I would imagine gets even more challenging  when we have the responsibility of a father and.  all the different things to juggle that come with that. So what I would want to say is that we are we are here to be exactly what  Bo, I think you said, we are here to, to make everyone feel less alone.

And as we take on the challenges of being a dad with ADHD. My encouragement to you is that,  is that you understand that support is a really good thing for you here  and you have other members of our community that you can absolutely lean on. Brendan is an amazing resource. ADHD Essentials is an awesome podcast.

Some of you probably listen to it already. But do not take on this challenge alone. Help is here.  So, Brendan, do you have any, cause this is going on our podcast as well, but anything you have coming up that you want to plug what's on the way?  

 The book, like the book is coming eventually sometime in, hopefully in the next year or so.

So I'm writing a book on the wall of awful. It's, it. Hopefully it is a big deal so that that's the thing to keep an eye out for. Hopefully by the time this drops, but sometime in the not too distant future, my website will be updated and there'll be a place where you can go to register for like alerts when the book is actually coming out and sign up for pre release stuff.

So that that's coming in sometime in the next few months. And the  

ABC essentials podcast is always how to find you.  That's true too. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, everyone, thank you for listening.  I hope everyone got some value from this and we will see a lot of you in our next men's ADHD support group zoom meeting.

I hope everyone has an awesome, awesome rest of the day and happy father's day to the dads with ADHD.  All right. Take care. Bye bye.