Relationships and Communication - Dave O'Dwyer & Laura Seed

In this Men's ADHD Support Group podcast episode, David O'Dwyer, aka the Spiritual Gentleman, and his partner Laura Seed share their journey navigating relationships with ADHD. With host Shane Thrapp, they discuss essential strategies for managing ADHD within relationships, understanding emotional dysregulation, and building strong, supportive partnerships. Listen in for actionable tips, heartfelt advice, and insightful dialogue on fostering better communication and personal growth within romantic relationships.

00:00 Understanding ADHD and Loneliness

02:35 Personal Journey with ADHD

06:03 Challenges and Growth in Relationships

14:34 Managing ADHD in Relationships - Strategies

25:52 Conflict Resolution and Self-Care

12:39 Complementing Each Other

34:28 Establishing Daily Routines

00:19 Managing Time Blindness

36:49 Audience Feedback and Questions

38:38 Effective Communication with ADHD

43:14 Handling Emotional Dysregulation

52:05 Dealing with Uncooperative Partners

56:50 Recognizing That Relationships End

38:38 Understanding ADHD in Relationships

01:28:28 Dating with ADHD: Tips and Strategies

01:28:23 Final Thoughts and Advice

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Transcript

Shane Thrapp: 0:22

Relationships are a big subject that a lot of people deal with, right. And I just want everybody to kind of recognize that when we have these struggles, it's, it's just, it's going to be a thing marriage in relationships and, friendships, all of that stuff is hard, especially when you have time blindness and different issues that we deal with, and, you know, that whole out of sight out of mind thing, it's just hard, I really hope that this can really help everybody have a better understanding of ways that you can work on not being alone. This is a hard one for me, and I don't want to start off everything as a downer, but a lot of people with ADHD, especially men with ADHD, have a higher likelihood of suicide. Part of the reason for that is because we feel so alone. We feel really lost and we don't know how to build a network of people around ourselves. And so when we talk about these kinds of issues, it's really important to understand that that fear of connecting with people is. Is not as bad as the[Dave] loneliness of being alone. So I just want to encourage everybody to do your best, not to fall into that isolation trap and to work on finding those people who are worth your time and will be there for you.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:59

You're worth my time, Shane. I love you, brother.

Shane Thrapp: 2:02

Today we are joined by Dave, the Spiritual Gentleman, and his partner, Laura, and I really want everyone to be a part of this conversation. If you have questions, put them in the chat. We'll have a Q and a session after Dave gets done with this presentation. And I just really appreciate all of you. You being here shows that you support our nonprofit organization. And that just means the world to us. We want to be able to provide so much to all of you, and the more that we're able to bring these things to you, the more stuff that we're able to bring in the future. And I just want to really, again, thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Dave, Laura, thank you for being here. Greatly appreciate it. I'll let you take it away.

Dave O'Dwyer: 2:55

Thank you, Shane. Appreciate that introduction. Hi. Yes. Like I said, my name is David Dwyer. I am one of the admins and moderators for the men's ADHD support group. I also run the Men's group that we started on Wednesdays. So shout out to all my Wednesday folks that I see in the call. So thank you so much for being here. Yeah, so just a little bit about who I am and how I got involved. So about me. So I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of nine. I don't look it, but I'm actually 41. So I was diagnosed in the mid nineties. I was the first kid in my high school to be diagnosed with ADHD. I struggled with all kinds of challenges, especially with relationships. I was very shy, people pleasing, and it was just to the point of where, like, I, I could get along with everyone, but I would always put other people first. And which then in my late teens and twenties, it led to substance abuse. Like when I was growing up when I was diagnosed with ADHD it was just called ADD at the time like they didn't even like have this there's ADD and ADHD they told me by the time I turned 18 My ADHD was going to go away. Like it's only a thing for children and it just disappears. That is obviously Not the case So with a lot of kind of struggle and substance abuse in my in my teens, in my twenties, by the time I turned 30, I realized that there was a need for a change. Some things kind of happened to me got arrested, got sober and then that's when I really started taking self development and my ADHD seriously. Like, for a long time, I thought, oh, I don't have it anymore, like, I thought I mastered it, but in reality, I really hadn't. And up to that point, I hadn't had actually any serious romantic relationships. The only way I could like, approach or talk to a woman I was attracted to was if I was blackout drunk. That was just one of the things that, like, I, like, I just, the RSD, the emotional dysregulation, just the anxiety of it was just way too much that I had a coping mechanism for it. And when I removed that, I had to relearn a lot of skills. After about two years after going through programs and really working on this, I decided that I was going to try to cook my way around the world because I was a chef and and my family's originally from Ireland. So, nine years ago on, uh, on the third. So in two days I moved to Ireland with the idea to cook my way around the world and that's what I told everyone. But secretly, the secret reason why I wanted to move over to Europe was that I'm not getting dates in America, so it must be American women's fault. I came over to Ireland and then that, okay, like, I'm an American, I'll just get a date, no problem being in Europe. That's when I realized it had nothing to do with, like, American women or European women. It had to do with me. It had to do with my relationship with myself. And understanding, like, how that, like, how to work on my own self worth and self esteem. Because, for those of us with ADHD, This is one of our biggest kind of struggles. We like, we get so much negative criticism growing up that it really affects kind of the vision and the view that we hold ourself, that we're worthless, that we're, we're less than. And the thing is, we're not. We're just wired differently. We just have a different set of mechanisms than Other people. So when I came over here realizing that I needed to learn these skills I got myself a dating coach and I worked with this guy Darren and Ferdia for about Six six months or so and I really worked on a lot of like dating and social skills But what it really the big thing that I learned from it was learning actually how to date myself learning how to build a relationship with me which then allowed me to feel comfortable enough that I could go out and meet and approach and talk to people and even though I was a really kind of social guy, but to Live my most authentic self take off the joker mask and just be dave Taking off the mask and learning how to be vulnerable and open and things and five years ago. So I was teaching laughter yoga At this place called the Clockwork Door. And my lovely partner is an amazing and talented artist. And she was teaching art classes at, it was, it happened usually right after my class. And sometimes my classes, because of my time blindness, would go on just a little long. And she would get a little mad at me.

Laura: 7:34

Like 15 minutes over the time.

Dave O'Dwyer: 7:36

Yeah, so like, she would get mad at me. But I'd always help her set up the room and we just started connecting. We ended up exchanging classes. We went out and and have been inseparable ever since have we had challenges in our relationship? Yes. Like, and we've learned to work through them. We've learned how to communicate. And it's, been a challenge. It hasn't been always easy, but it's, something we deal with. And it's something we work together on, and one of the big things, though, is that it starts with us recognizing and having done a lot of self work on ourselves first. We're not coming into the relationship as a half, we're coming in as a whole person. We're not looking for someone to fulfill, to fill to fill the hole in the soul, because nothing can really fill that hole except yourself. So question you guys write this in the chat. What do you think the most important relation? What what do you think is your most important relationship? Alright, what do we put here? With myself, with my husband, yourself, yourself, my children, to ourselves. Excellent. And the answer is, of course, as a lot of you put there, the most important relationship starts with you. Right? This is the foundation. Out of all your relationships, this is the one that you will live with for the rest of your life, is the one with you. If everyone else, you went to go live in the middle of the woods by yourself, you would still be with you. So it starts by developing a healthy self relationship with yourself and especially understanding your ADHD, right? Like understanding how you operate and what, like, are the tools that you need so that you make life worth work best for you, right? Like, before we can get into any other kind of relationships, developing on this one Like it becomes key like I said before I don't know if you guys ever heard that like saying of like Oh, she's my better half or he's my better half or i'm looking for my better half. I hate that phrase Because what you're telling yourself And what you're telling people when you say that is that you're saying that you're a half And you're not even the good half. They're the better half You're instinctively already putting yourself down and a negative light of how you view yourself You know, it's better to be a whole and working on yourself first and then like the people will start to kind of come into your life because you're going to be surrounding yourself in those things like I know one of the things I work with my clients on, one of the first like activities that we do is to write down your most ideal partner or relationship that you want. And, you know, get as specific as possible. And I know Laura, before we met, you did something very similar of where you wrote out everything that you wanted. And for me, mine was pretty simple. I just wrote out I wanted a best friend I could be naked with mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I wanted someone to walk with me in this world. I had that before meeting Laura, I was about maybe four or five years traveling on my own, living out of a backpack and I wanted someone to travel the world and this life with. And, that was kind of my big kind of goal when looking for a partner and as someone who was traveling around the world, I know it was an unreasonable ask to be like, yeah, drop everything you do and come follow me around. But it came down to when we started dating, it was by our third or fourth date, we had a real honest conversation. With of like what we both wanted where we were going and we came up with this kind of this concept of roots and wings like building, for us was building a base and then going out and having adventures and traveling and building a life together and It was trying to build these things with each other and as coming across as a way To really allow that we both knew what we had, and it wasn't what can I get from the table, it was what can I bring to the table, what can you bring to the table, what can we build together? And going back to kind of the self care, be selfish with your self care, right? Like, recognize before you can help anyone else, you need to fill your own cup. This is with your physical self care, emotional self care, your mental self care, and your ADHD self care. Recognize all those kind of things. And for each person, it's going to be a little bit different and that's kind of takes it out. Like one of the things that Lauren and I do is that if we need to have some kind of space or a little kind of break, like we're, we need to work on ourselves and be like, I need some Dave time or I need some Laura time. And we may even recognize the other person if they're feeling emotionally drained or physically exhausted and be like, Hey, do you need some Laura time? And it isn't like. I'm like, hey, go be by yourself. It's like, look, you need, do you need your battery recharge?

Laura: 12:35

You'd be very good at knowing that with me as well. I think we kind of see if I'm drained or not so energetic and like vice versa. By now we understand when the other needs like time. That's just quite good as well. Over time it's got better.

Dave O'Dwyer: 12:50

Yeah. We start to, you start to recognize and understand your partner's mannerisms of like kind of what their needs are. And this is comes from As you start to live with live with someone so for us we moved in together, Into a small studio apartment on march 1st 2020 So like we went from both doing lots of workshops being really active and really independent and we still both are very independent Yeah but it's like we had to then get kind of squashed into a tiny room For the next, almost two years. So it was like, we got thrown into the gauntlet of the deep end of like, Hey, can we live together? What are like the little things? That we need to work on and the little annoying things of like, even me finding the ADHD support group comes down to Laura recognizing of like my, as we were living together, as my ADHD was kind of flaring up a lot more and coming across, because I didn't really lived with another person before, outside of like kind of some roommates and things like that situation, but not like in a partner situation. There's like I would leave lights on or I'd forget to turn off the oven and like these little things would start to really Bug you at first.

Laura: 13:58

Yeah, because I didn't like fully understand The ADHD side and then when you talked to me about it I started to kind of research it a bit and That came to me understanding a little bit more of like you weren't doing it intentionally You were just doing it because it's just the way your brain works and that kind of Eliminated a lot of like the stress on my side

Dave O'Dwyer: 14:20

Yeah, and that's, and that's a powerful thing too, right? Of like, being able to have not just yourself but your partner also research about this, understand what are things that can like, work for you. And because she was starting to research, I was like, you know what, I need to find myself maybe there's a support group out there for men with ADHD. And that's how I ran into, that's how I found the men's ADHD support group as going as someone who's gone through a lot of other like support groups and things like that, I know specifically I needed help with the ADHD stuff. And that's how I found the men's ADHD support group. So strategies for managing ADHD especially in relationships. One of the things that we work on A lot as we try to use I feel statements versus you should statements The reason being is that an I feel statement is you're owning your stuff. This is how I feel You're not putting your stuff on somebody else. You should do this and also like, you know Put it like right put a thumbs up in the comments. If you've ever gotten a you should and you're just like completely blank wall, like you're like, all right ego goes up You're like you should shut up, right? Like I don't know about anyone. I don't like you should statements Especially from a partner right because it's almost like you're talking to him like a child And you know, I don't want my partner to be my mother and she doesn't want to be my mother I don't want to be her father. We want to be able to come together Are there sometimes I need some motherly kind of female energy? From you to like, feel comfort? Yeah. Both.

Laura: 15:53

Vice versa. Yeah. I feel, you know, with the masculine, and I mean that sometimes as well,

Dave O'Dwyer: 15:57

and that's the difference from being motherly or or naggy or fatherly and like trying to get someone to do something, but to recognize that hey, you know what, we're learning to express our needs. Like the other week I was having a really kind of tough day. I got rejected from another job and I was just feeling really kind of low and like I was just, I was getting a little kind of depressed. And instead of like Laura going like, Oh, what, like, Oh, you should do this. He's like, what about this? What about that? Was like, she asked me, what do you need at this moment? And I was like, right now I just need to be listened to and helped. And it was just, it's a simple thing of like. Asking for what you want and what you need at that time, you know And these are the things that that have helped us of understanding because there are times when she's kind of had like, you know breakdowns and things like that and She doesn't want me to solve the problem or at that moment. She just needs me. She just wants me to listen

Laura: 16:55

Yeah, and you're very good at that but kind of not giving advice unless I ask specifically say hey, I need advice You're very good at just holding the space As well, which is like i'm grateful for that. Definitely.

Dave O'Dwyer: 17:08

Yeah any other things that we do on communication that you think that we

Laura: 17:14

I really like the way you give advice because For me, I feel that was the thing that I was gonna say. I was grateful for for you Is when I ask for advice you say what I need to hear but you do it in a sense in a way that's very compassionate and understanding and critical in the sense of You You give advice, but you're like, here's how I feel. You could take what you've learned in the past to make this thing move forward. You're probably the only person in my life I would ask advice to, and like, not feel like I'm putting a God up, which is a big deal for me because I definitely have trust issues and stuff. But with you, you're very good at listening and then also expressing. If I need advice as well or if I need criticism or anything like that, and I'm also very good at saying, hey, I really would love some criticism here, like with, with the painting, especially as the paintings. I'm like, that's mine. I don't want advice. But, you know, you're very good at listening and kind of communicating things and then loving, caring, in a way.

Dave O'Dwyer: 18:22

Aw, thank you. And that comes down to tone and body language. And also, like, while you guys were kind of hearing her speak, I want you to also kind of notice what I was doing as well. As I was looking her in the eyes, and I was also, because it's easy for us to get, like, lost or get blanked like you can kind of blank out so when I when she's speaking I look at her lips So I know when she's done speaking so it gives me the focus so that i'm focusing in so I can pay attention to what she's saying Because If she tries to ask me something and i'm on my phone or something or like we'll go on i'll do the huh Yeah, she's like dude. You're not even listening because my my like I can't keep

Laura: 19:06

Saying yes isn't going to

Speaker 4: 19:08

yeah, like make

Laura: 19:09

me walk away you have to listen and then i'll walk away But wait, I I noticed one of the questions someone asked before I know that's not till the end But I was gonna say on that. You Maybe if your partner does something that you find triggers a response. What I do with Dave a lot, because I know when we first started dating I was like, kind of a little bit sarcastic, and that comes from like, being English and living in Ireland. And what I do a bit more now is, I'll be more playful about it. Like, I'll be like, Oh, you know, like we did there. Saying yes doesn't mean, you know, that's an answer. You gotta You gotta put the phone down and listen now, and Dave doesn't take that in a way that's like, he closes up and is on the defensive, because I'm doing it in a playful, kind of flirty way, because he's my partner. And that is something that's helped me, I guess, express.

Dave O'Dwyer: 20:01

Exactly. So it comes down to the tone. Because you can say that same thing of the put down the phone, and be yes, does it like, does it mean that you're listening? Put down the phone, right? That is, that tonality and like, language is, like, same words. But like the force and, about 80 percent of most communication is actually nonverbal, not the words you speak, but the tonality, body language and all the sub communications that's going on there. So recognizing it's not what you say, but how you say it. will show if it actually gets received or not, because if, you know, you probably all heard someone in your life from either a partner or at work or your children. You're like, how was your day? I'm fine. And you're like You're clearly not fine, right? Like the way you said it there, it means that you don't want to talk about it, but you kind of want to talk about it. Cause your tone's telling you to, and I have a funny thing that I've come up with the word fine. So when someone tells me like. They're fine in that kind of tone. I'm like, all right, in my head fine means effed up insecure neurotic emotional So and then we halt we stop and we're like, all right, let's see if we can solve some needs Are you feeling hungry angry lonely tired? Like I I know for for laura's like if she hasn't eaten in a couple hours, she gets hangry So like I have a bar already So if I know if there's like something off and especially for us You like recognizing how our dopamine and serotonin work and how our kind of, how we go through the day can recognize what's going on and how to kind of help through it. And also understanding each other's love languages. You know, for Laura, she loves little notes.

Laura: 21:46

Yeah. Words of affirmation.

Dave O'Dwyer: 21:48

Words of affirmations,

Laura: 21:49

Acts of service.

Dave O'Dwyer: 21:50

Yeah. I'm acts of service and I love quality time.

Laura: 21:53

That was a big one for me. Now with communication. As soon as I learn your love languages, because before that point, your main thing when we would argue would be that when I'm with you, I don't seem present enough or I don't spend enough time with you. So now when we are together, even if it's just an hour a day, I'm trying to be like fully present, fully there, really listen to what you're saying, really be attentive. Because also I learned that from your love languages, because it's quality time. That was a thing that every argument we'd have, that would come up, quality time would come up. And as soon as we did that, that was a really big change for us, like the love languages. I feel for anyone in a relationship is a really key thing that can change a lot of how you understand your partner, definitely.

Dave O'Dwyer: 22:47

Oh, for sure. And then there's actually something that that Shane just told me about earlier today actually and I want to put that on this five neurodivergent love languages So these are ways that people who are neurodivergent or adhd showed their kind of love in a little bit different ways So info dumping is that you kind of do this one too It's like once you have a great day, you're like, oh my god I can't wait to tell you about my day and it's like Boom. Here's all the information. Or if I'm about a game or something, I'll tell you about my nerdy thing and you're like, okay. But it's just the way that we show it because we want it like, so maybe your partner loves to like tell you about what's going on. Parallel play. This is something that we actually like to do. So this is kind of like body doubling. So there are times we'll sit on this same couch here. She'll be on her laptop watching a show. I'll be playing a game. But it's still considered quality time. We're still doing our own thing, but it's just being next to each other allows that to kind of happen. So we can kind of do things together. Like, even when we do our cleaning or we'll do something, we do it together. So it becomes an activity that becomes a with and not a without. Penguin pebbling, that means it's like little gifts or little kind of things. It's like. Like normally like I do the cooking she does the cleaning but from time to time I'll do the dishes or you bring in like coffees in the morning like we've like It's like the little kind of gestures to kind of show love and affection Right just those little kind of things that I know that she would appreciate that, you know, kind of that kind of that helps support swapping. So this is More for like, similar to kind of spending time to each other and like doing activities together. So, Supporting each other like her coming on I asked her a few days ago. Would you like to do this with me? Because I thought it'd be nice If we're talking about communication and relationships, why not bring my partner on as well? And so, her supporting me doing this, or me supporting you on your Kickstarter, or

Laura: 24:47

Yeah, you're you're always supporting me, so it's like the least I could do.

Dave O'Dwyer: 24:53

Finding ways that you can support your partner in whatever activity it is, like, she used to do a lot of workshops and markets and things so i'd go help her with the markets or Like, you know finding out what your strengths are And what your partner's strengths are or and understanding your weaknesses, right? Like one of my strengths is i'm very good at directions. You get lost really easily so I take the lead on the directions when it comes down to a lot of the cleaning or the daily Cleaning stuff you're much better at that than I am.

Laura: 25:24

Yeah, I just noticed like the little details, you know Yeah, but like you're very good at doing like the cooking and stuff like that and for me, I just would have You You know, I always say this, I have a terrible diet, and it wasn't for you, so I'm grateful for that.

Dave O'Dwyer: 25:39

Yeah, and then the last one is deep pressure. So, this is actually something I realized that we do a lot as well. We're always kind of hugging, or like, holding on to each other, and it's just a way of where it doesn't need to be anything sexual, but it's just a way of feeling comforted, and like, Especially when we snuggle in, like either she's snuggling to me or I'm snuggling to her and it's just a way that we feel safe and comfortable. And it's a way to show intimacy and affection in just a really pure and simple form. So the other thing though is that in, Every relationship, there will be conflict. And so understanding, like, your fight languages, understanding how you fight, how to talk about giving yourself time to process. Like, for Laura, she likes to hash it out right away. I need time to process what we're going through, and I'll start to shut down a little bit. And she's recognized, alright, when he's shutting down, he needs his space for a little bit to process. And we don't, like, it's usually like an hour, or like, maybe 20 minutes. Like, alright, go take 20 minutes. Come back to it. So the five kind of like fight languages is righteousness, insist of always being right, retribution, seeking payback, indignation, always feeling unfairly treated distraction, avoiding the confrontation, not wanting to do that. Sometimes I fall into that one too, but I try to, I don't do it early on a relationship. I'd always try to avoid it. And now I'm like, I've learned to be more open and vulnerable when I have a thing.

Laura: 27:13

Yeah, you've come a long way there, definitely.

Dave O'Dwyer: 27:15

And then justification rationalizing behavior to avoid accountability or responsibility on something. So recognize how you interact in these things. And one of the things that I think that has worked for us, Especially is that when we have a problem or an issue, it isn't, it's always you do this or you always do this like, all right, here's, we're like, all right, let's define what the problem is. And then instead of. Me versus laura, it's us versus the problem So instead of looking at like collaborating on a solution rather than looking at adversaries of like One person has to win if one person wins that means one person has to lose and then everyone loses rather All right, let's both win and solve the problem than to try to find like And find a common ground of like, all right, where can we compromise? Where can we? Find our common ground of that. We can work on what are things that you can do? What are things that I can do and how can we come together? Yeah i'll be honest We've had really kind of like maybe Eight big fight, maybe five to eight big fights.

Laura: 28:26

I'd say probably about six I'd say probably about like five five major ones like make or break type of ones probably about five

Dave O'Dwyer: 28:35

Yeah, and with those kind of make or break ones it came down to have not like, I hate you, you hate me. It was like, all right, I hate the situation that we're in right now. And I hate this. All right. And then it, we had to kind of, especially on our last really big one, it was like, we both had to take a step back and ask ourselves, what do we want? What do we want out of this relationship? What do we want out of life? And, you know, and this goes back to being a whole first of like, recognizing like. The other day when we were walking back with the groceries like I it was When you told me it was like, you know, if we ended up breaking up god forbid you'd be like i'd be okay

Laura: 29:12

And yeah, and I meant that in a in a really positive kind of way because before we had our last big fight I was just so in it that I couldn't really, I was almost kind of using you as an excuse for a lot of the action I needed to take and then when we had that fight and you were like, you know, and I felt like you could leave, it almost kind of freed me to realize that like, it wasn't, you know, A lot of the stuff I was putting the blame on you for were actually the stuff that I Was really needed to work on myself and that was kind of the thing that helped me push forward, you know

Dave O'Dwyer: 29:49

Yeah, and usually when we're kind of blaming or getting annoyed at someone it's usually a mirror back at our own behavior like you like one of the things that that Do with clients and I've learned from my dating coach is that the mirroring thing of like like we mirror as humans will marry Like the other person and especially in our emotions and our kind of attitudes sort of thing So everything starts to go down like you're just mirroring mirroring mirroring and then to kind of but so you have to take that step away Recognize. All right looking at it from the other point of view, right? I think in any Any conflict or, or argument there is, there is your point of view, the other person's point of view, and then the third point of view, right? What are the facts on the ground? What's the outside perspective? If you had to look at it from the fourth wall angle looking down as a TV show, what are you seeing there? Then it gives you that sense to recognize, alright, is this really something to get into, or is this like, It doesn't disvalidate anyone's feelings, but you can start to have a larger perspective. And remember, all this, every single thing, is a work in progress, right? Like, you know, relationships, Are just all right cool. We've got the perfect relationship. Let's capitalize it in in time and it will never change Everything changes the relationship with yourself changes. It's something that grows and changes and you are a work in progress. These slides are a work in progress so, recognizing that, everyone is trying to work towards their own best. And, does that still align with what yours is? And that's really, once again, comes back down to understanding yourself, first and foremost. And one of the things that we do, Laura's really good at this, I struggle a bit more on it. I have kind of my mental health and health routines like

Laura: 31:36

games for you as a big yeah, right like that's how you Offset and like switch off. That's maybe a your way of going through stuff as well

Dave O'Dwyer: 31:46

Yeah, like I I like to play a game for an hour at night like laura's really good about journaling I usually do my journaling in the mornings when I wake up to get out all the thoughts So these are things of us working on ourselves, like, individually, so that when we come together as a couple, we work on the couple, like, that's the third entity that we work together on. Some tools and techniques that have helped us boundaries, understand that, you know, each other needs time for alone, like we said, like, Calling out and it's not in a mean or vindictive. It's like, hey, you know what my social battery strength like Laura's more of an introvert I'm more of an extrovert So if she has a lot of social days like she needs that time alone and I recognize this So I'm like, all right. Hey, like do you need some Laura time? Like when I finish usually like my Wednesday meetings, I'm usually all really hyped up and energized that I'm like, all right, I need a half hour to calm back down because I'm like, Oh my God, everything is like,

Laura: 32:49

I'm the opposite. I guess my job is very social. So I, I kind of need like 60 percent alone time and 40 percent social at the moment. It's like 80 percent social, 20 percent alone time. So Dave's been very good. I kind of. You know, making sure that I have that time and really not making me feel bad about leaving this time alone as well, which I appreciate.

Dave O'Dwyer: 33:11

Yeah, and like, it's a lot of positive reinforcement, right? Especially for people with adhd because we get in so much negative reinforcement like I feel like we need to overdose a little bit on the positive reinforcement to feel that we're there for each other to kind of cheer each other on and not a way of jealousy But just as genuine like I want to see you succeed because I love you. I want you to succeed so we try to be each other's biggest cheerleader and avoid kind of nagging each other or like Bringing it out negative, but like learning how that if we're going through something, it's not like blaming the other person, but it's about like, all right, this is how I'm feeling right now. Okay. What do you need? How can I bring some positive support, providing support through positive affirmations and acknowledgement of efforts? One of the things that we're really good at too, is that when someone does the dishes or cooks dinner, it's there's please and thank you. It's like, Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate you making the bed. I. I appreciate you for doing the roof. I appreciate you for, for vacuuming or taking out the bins. It's whatever it is, right? Like it's because we all want to feel that acknowledgement. You know, this is especially in one of the things that will get me to leave a job in particular really fast is if I have no acknowledgement or affirmation towards my efforts. When no one kind of comments or says, hey, good job, like the, the butcher shop that I worked at, like Willie, the guys up there, there's no positive reinforcement there. So I had no problem. Like, all right, like I can take or leave this job because I have no, I'm not getting that kind of dopamine rush of like, Hey, you're, you're doing well. Another thing that helped us to is that we have daily routines and support structures. So we kind of get up at the same time. We have lunch and dinner roughly around the same time. We have a nice break to our day. We, carve out a couple times. So that, maybe it's just, An hour at lunch and an hour at dinner, but we make sure we put that time aside. We also make sure we put time aside for our own things as well for our own personal time. We don't have kids yet. So I think we're a little bit lucky in that aspect for now. But also like, I think we're one of the things Laura's really good that helps me is she's really good with my time blindness, especially when it comes to Things at the end of the night like for our night time routine, they'd be like, hey you know, just 10 more minutes

Laura: 35:31

Yeah, if I don't do that, you'll stay on the game. I'll stay on a game

Dave O'Dwyer: 35:36

Two hours two three hours. It'll be five six in the morning and I won't realize that it is And they'll be like, About 10 more minutes before I'm going to bed. I'm just about to go brush my teeth. Oh, she's going to go brush her teeth. Let me come in behind you and brush my teeth.

Laura: 35:48

And I don't mind because I like busting around a little.

Dave O'Dwyer: 35:52

But it helps me, like, to remember to brush my teeth because if I don't have that little cue I forget to do that. And it's like, Laura goes through a bit of anxiety. So, I'll forget to lock the doors, but she's, you know, going behind me making sure everything's, checked off and, like, and it helps. We complement each other. Alright, so, this is And so before the questions there I just want to say thank you guys for listening I hope you guys got something out of it Can't wait to take your questions and then also just the very last slide here check out our socials. You can find me at the spiritual gentleman on instagram youtube and facebook and also my Laura does amazing artwork. She's just has one or two days left or is the kickstarter done Four days left on a kickstarter that she's doing but you can find her at the inner wildfire. And of course Thank you so much you guys for supporting men's adhd support group This group means a whole lot to me and I appreciate every one of you guys for coming here when we talk about kind of support networks outside of relationships, this is one of the men's group is a huge thing that I feel outside of just a relationship having those support structures. For men having a men's group, women having their women's group, or friends around, so that you have something outside of it for that kind of full life.

Shane Thrapp: 37:12

Thank you Dave, thank you Laura, I really appreciate it. You know, I really didn't know exactly what to expect with the two of y'all giving these. Sometimes I get really overwhelmed when there's multiple speakers, but y'all did a really good job. Good job communicating it, and I'm fairly certain y'all didn't rehearse that or anything.

Laura: 37:32

Okay,

Shane Thrapp: 37:33

so I just We completely

Laura: 37:34

winged it.

Shane Thrapp: 37:35

Yeah, no, but that was really well done. The, the segues that y'all used in those, even with you taking that question, Laura, like, I really appreciated that. You know, I hope everybody else did, we had a few questions that popped up in the chat. If y'all want to ask your question or anything like that, go ahead and feel free to raise your hand in the reactions button below. And we're going to call on whoever does that first in order. And if you're not comfortable being on the camera, feel free to just leave your video off. If you want to ask in the chat and, or if you want me to feel free to DM it to me I do want to kind of start with one, Dave walked away.

Dave O'Dwyer: 38:23

I was just grabbing my juice. That's the idea is just like walk away when I'm in the middle of talking to you. Okay, that's fine. Whatever

Laura: 38:33

you need to communicate that.

Dave O'Dwyer: 38:35

I'm sorry. Sorry. I need to communicate, but I also don't want to talk over him as well. Because his lips are still moving. So,

Shane Thrapp: 38:42

So, I'm going to go ahead and ask this question because it's just segues into into kind of some multiple questions that were kind of around the same thing, but how do you. And y'all kind of answered it, but look, can we go into it a little bit further with how do you communicate with your partner, like considering our self awareness issues, not recognizing our own tone, sometimes the different issues that we have in that way you know, especially for people who are autistic, where we may come off arrogant or whatever it is, and very impersonal or kind of robotic sometimes, how do you communicate with your partner in a way that doesn't come across argumentative, but. When it's actually you're distracted or you're not paying attention to your own tone

Dave O'Dwyer: 40:46

Yeah, so I I think that comes down to recognizing of like even the other person saying of like Hey, do you recognize your tone right now? And like, can you rephrase what you're saying? Right? Like, so it gets them a pause of like, all right, to recognize, all right, like, give them that extra kind of breath to rephrase what they're saying. Sometimes I notice like, another kind of thing that I do sometimes is that if you're like, Feeling about something because emotional pain not transformed is transmitted So sometimes like you'll get annoyed at your partner, but it's something at work that happened and so like I remember this one time we were in selbridge the selbridge house and I can't remember what the exact thing was, but you were mad about about me about something and then I was like Okay, but all right, what else and I kept kind of chunking down to realize that had nothing to do with me But it was actually had to do with something else completely So kind of asking the questions of like, okay, where is this coming from? Like, all right, let's find the root of where all right Like what are you trying to get across like rephrasing it or asking them to reframe so they can fully understand like hey, I don't really get what you're getting at there especially if it's like coming across as argumentative be like Okay, like, what are our ways, like, can you say that again, because I'm not fully understanding, so it gives them a chance to kind of reframe it, and recognizing, too, that I know, like, as much as, like, I know deep down That even though because like on a surface level we can annoy each other and there would be little kind of things But I know deep down this person isn't trying to hurt me, right? Like this person isn't trying to cause me pain Like they're just annoyed about something and there's like these surface level So it's a recognizing a surface level and is it a deeper issue and like kind of chunking down Asking questions to get down to like what the root is. Does that answer your question or do you have any thoughts on that?

Laura: 42:42

I was just going to add like some, I think I wanted to say earlier on with the language and stuff is like, for me, it was very much a learning thing. Like I didn't automatically be like, I feel, or I appreciate, like for me, I was a little bit more narcissistic towards the beginning, like not in the sense that I am narcissistic, but I definitely was very self, whereas, It's probably taken me, personally, like a year or two to really get that language down. So, like, not to beat yourself up if it takes a while. And then any time I've had a go at Dave about something and then I've journaled and I've realised that I was way out of line. I've came back later on and said, look, I'm really sorry that I was angry at you about that thing because I realised that it's actually because of ABC. And I'm lucky because you're, you're, you don't take things personally. But I would be the opposite. I really would like if you're, if you're angry at me, I take it probably 50 times more personally than you would. So maybe just if somebody has said something to the partner, and it's taken out of terms. And I know one of the questions was about that earlier on. Just even going back to them later on and being like look I realized I was out of line and I've just been really stressed at work or I felt this way because at the end of the day we're building new habits, it doesn't come overnight, that's the big thing that helps me and you, I think, get to where we're at now and remove a lot of the

Dave O'Dwyer: 44:11

And a phrase that I got from my parents is with love and kindness. So like asking me to do something or something else, like, it's like we have a little kind of code words of like, all right, hey, with love and kindness, can you reframe that? Or with love and kindness, can you do that? That for us is like kind of code words of like, hey, can you dial it in here? Of like, I really need you to focus on what I'm saying right now. And then, Like don't be distracted. That's when i'll be like i'll put down my phone and then I know to listen So we kind of created our own little kind of buzzwords, I guess.

Laura: 44:40

Yeah Yeah, definitely

Shane Thrapp: 44:42

So I kind of have a follow up question on that And and laura you kind of answered it we deal with emotional dysregulation right that quick snap of I heard a tone. I heard a phrase. I heard something that triggered a What is most likely a trauma response, what do I do if I don't stop that impulse to say that angry thing, to have that response, what do I do, what do I do after that, because I've already done the damage, how do I, how do I fix that situation?

Laura: 45:17

That really is just kind of a, a, a, admit and fault when you're out of line, like, You know, I'm a really big nerd when it comes to self development, so I learned so much about this stuff. And one of the big things is not beating yourself up about it and just being like, Look, I was really mean to you in that moment and I'm really sorry. And like 99 percent of the time the person will instantly, it will remove any of that hurt because of the fact that you've taken ownership. Taking ownership of, of your own side of it is the biggest thing with that. And you're very good at doing that as well. That will take an ownership for if you're out of line with something.

Dave O'Dwyer: 45:55

Yeah. So it's coming down to like. It's not what you say, but it's how it was said, right? And it's recognizing that when you come to apologize Right that that's kind of that's one of those ego busting kind of things to do when you have to say i'm, sorry, i'm wrong on this or you know, my tone was like my tone came across in a negative way or You know the way I spoke like came across in Like not how I intended to and i'm sorry like and i'm like When someone tells you, I'm sorry, how do you feel? Like, Shane, like, when, when, if your wife says, Hey, you know, I messed something up, I'm sorry. How do you feel? You're like, Oh. Like, thank you for owning your side of it, and then that person feels better. But also, an apology helps, like, you as well, to let go of that pain.

Shane Thrapp: 46:46

Yeah, I think I, I think one of the things that I've had to deal with, Was it had happened too much? Before I realized I had ADHD this was in a really a previous relationship that this actually happened to me Where I was not on medications and I was having that snap reaction to things But by the time I understood that I had ADHD, the damage was already done, right? My, my apology was falling on honestly traumatized years, you know, somebody who was already dealing with past pain of all the different times I'd had those moments. So that's 1 of those situations where it also depends on. Where you're at in your relationship and, and, and recognizing that once you understand that you have ADHD, there has to be a communication back and forth about it. And when you, and just a recognition that, okay, I've hurt you in the past, and I'm going to do my best to manage my ADHD so that I don't get so emotionally dysregulated. So I'm taking my medication, I'm exercising, I'm talking to my therapist, learning about my emotions. Like, once you start doing those things, now you have to start a new healing process with the relationship, and that's how you kind of rebuild things from there.

Dave O'Dwyer: 48:07

And that's, and that's the amends, right? So in a lot of recovery rooms, they talk about an amends. An amends is not necessarily an apology. An amends is just what you said of like, I recognize this behavior, how it affected you, and here are the ways that I'm going to correct this behavior so I try not to do it again. I'm not going to be perfect at it, but I'm going to like, work towards that. That creates a solution base. So it's creating that kind of solution base to like, here are the things that we can do to help solve that so we can try not to have that happen again.

Shane Thrapp: 48:40

Emeliya just asked this question in the chat and it's related, so I'm gonna go ahead and drop it in there. How do you say you're sorry in an effective way instead of a defensive way? Because like, prime example, myself. Look, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, right? I'm being defensive there. I'm, I'm, the anger is still there. A person who is sensitive to that anger is going to feel like I'm still angry at them, and I'm just trying to say I'm sorry. And I'm, I'm not really sorry by my tone, even though I am saying the words.

Dave O'Dwyer: 49:16

Right, because it's not a genuine apology then, right? Because it's not like, because the tone and the body language there doesn't come across as genuine. So, taking those moments of where, like, the I'm sorry right away may not like, I'm sorry. And it's like, that's more of an I'm sorry, I want to shut this conversation down. Versus, hey, you know, last night. You know, you know, I said an off color comment about your mom and you know I'm, really sorry about that. It was out of line from you that and i'm gonna try to watch my words When talking about your mom, that would be an example there, right? Like there's eye contact. It's first, like, make sure that if you're going to give an apology, that it's a genuine one, right? Cause people can tell, like, majority of people can tell the difference between a defensive one that you did. Like, I'm sorry about what I said to your mom last night. Like, that's like, right. Like there's already like, are you though? It doesn't sound like it. So it's coming across of like, Hey, making sure that you genuinely feel that way. And that, that it's like you've taken that time to understand why they're upset or like, you know, what? You know, like, I'm really sorry that I upset you. I'm not exactly sure what I did. Can you help me to understand what I did so that I can not do it again or what's going on here? Is it something about me or is there something else that was going on? Should we have a tea and figure this out?

Shane Thrapp: 50:41

So just to kind of make sure I understand, when you've calmed down and you can make it real, like a, you can actually sit here and go, okay, I did something really hurtful there. All right. When you've calmed down, that's when to say that you're sorry, not while you're still kind of dysregulated or still dealing with that, like a lot of us deal with that shame and guilt directly after we do something, you know, so just when we calm down, then have that conversation, And then go from there.

Dave O'Dwyer: 51:13

Exactly. Because at that moment, logic, isn't running the show at that moment, your emotions are right. And like, by doing that, you're actually racking up the motions because they're like, you're like, you know, using your example of like, I'm sorry, I feel like 10 minutes. But are you sorry and then now now we've now we've continued to escalate right? We're not de escalating the energy We're escalating it up to the point where it's going to blow up and then we're going to be pulling out things from the past You'd be like, oh, but what about this from this one time three years ago you'd like and then like has nothing to do with

Laura: 51:45

Yeah, we've had arguments like that Yeah, but the big the big thing why you mentioned shane is the emotional regulation Like for me I have to I have to kind of Figure it out in my brain to get and remove the anger in order to like be able to say hey Dave I'm really sorry So the journaling kind of comes in there. Usually I'll be like, I'm gonna go journal, and then I'll like come back and be like, I realized that I was really angry there, but that's my way of like regulating, you know? Yeah,

Dave O'Dwyer: 52:15

and I'll be like, hey, I need to stay up late on a Sunday to go do the meeting.

Shane Thrapp: 52:20

Yeah, like, or, I think one of the things that my therapist taught me when I was having those moments was, I've got to go for a walk and cool off. My brain is a thousand miles an hour right now. I'll be back and we can discuss this once I've calmed down, right? Kind of, I'm owning that I'm angry once I've kind of gotten to that point, but I know I'm still angry. Walk away, and, and like, I will put a caveat on this. Make sure you have this discussion with your partner when you're calmed down beforehand. Hey, every now and then I have emotional dysregulation trauma responses. You may say something and you didn't mean it in a certain way, but my brain takes it a certain way, and I may say something really mean. I'm working on this. If I say I have to go for a walk, it's because I'm dysregulated and I need a, I need a moment to figure out what just happened and where it came from. And then to Laura's thing, I write it down and I send that off to my therapist and say, Hey, I got to discuss with this because I just had a really negative response. I want to ask the question for one of the people who wants to remain anonymous. What is some good advice for, you know, partnerships and couples where one of the people doesn't want to learn about ADHD, doesn't really care that you have ADHD? And they don't really believe that it's what's affecting the relationship. They're trying to assigning it as a character flaws. How do you deal with that? Like, how do you get the other partner to understand that ADHD affects everything about us and our relationships?

Laura: 54:03

That's a tough one. That's a tough one.

Dave O'Dwyer: 54:05

Cause like my, this, my, my kind of like trigger or the thing that I want to say it right off the bat is that. Is that the right person for you then? Yeah,

Laura: 54:15

I'm not gonna lie. That's a little bit my response too. Yeah, like

Dave O'Dwyer: 54:18

if they're It's it comes down to I think like how like the how of a lot of things but How a good I think a good relationship works is with honesty openness and willingness If you know you're you're trying to be honest and they're not being honest back with you If they're not open to your honesty, and if they're not willing to listen, if they're, if they don't have that honesty, openness, and willingness to meet you halfway, to meet you at the table, then is that the right person? Is that the person that's like, okay, if they're just gonna, if, because it sounds like they're blaming the character, oh, you're a terrible person, then I would flip it back on you and say, okay, if you think they're such a terrible person, then why are you with them? What is like about you that you're reflecting on to them? I think you would need to have a calm discussion of like, okay, are you willing to learn about A DHD If they're like, no, I don't believe it exists. I don't think this is real. I think you're just a terrible person. Then ask yourself, okay, what goes back to that initial thing? What do you want in a relationship? Is that person feeling whole? Are you feeling whole in that relationship? If not, then it's like, okay, can we work to find compromise here to find that we can work together? Or if not, maybe it's best to find someone that you're a better fit with. Because it doesn't sound like, to me, in that scenario, that's a good fit.

Laura: 55:50

Yeah, you have to be willing to like, learn about your partner and learn about how their brain works. Because otherwise, it's, it's difficult to go through life as a team, I feel. Like, if you're constantly against them and thinking that they're a bad person, it doesn't, it makes me sad to think that that would be a relationship. Because for us, like, that's the only way we've been able to get through. Those tough moments is understanding each other and how our unique brains kind of work. Definitely.

Dave O'Dwyer: 56:22

Yeah, I recognize that we're a team. It's not versus. It's not one versus the other, right? Because as soon as you go with that kind of like, it's me versus you, what can I take the most of and what can you take the most of? That's a lose lose. That's, that's a lose lose kind of situation. Because you're all, you're both kind of coming from a selfish, like, what can I take to fill? What can I take to fill? And that doesn't mean that you're not working together as a team to actually try to solve the issue. You're like, what can I get the most and then run away? That's how I perceive it. Maybe

Shane Thrapp: 56:53

that's Yeah, this is the way that I liken that, right? If we were to look at any other mental health issue or physical health issue, say I lived in a wheelchair. I would need help sometimes because I can't reach a thing. I may fall out of my chair. I may need help with different things. If I'm with a partner and they're constantly, you know, ignoring the fact that I'm in a wheelchair. Is that the kind of person I want to be with?

Dave O'Dwyer: 57:22

Or they always tell you you're in a wheelchair and they're like, hey, can you get something on the top shelf? Like hey, why don't you ever get anything off the top shelf? Like, you know, i'm always having to get everything off the top shelf

Shane Thrapp: 57:32

Yeah, like what would you do with a partner who's like if you were blind and they were like can't you see what i'm trying to do here. No, I can't Can you let me like, or you don't need glasses. Stop wearing glasses. They're not, that's not something that you actually deal with. I'm like, no, I'm good. My eyes are fucked. This is like, sorry. So this is one of those things that come to mirror what y'all said, sometimes we have to recognize that relationships are done, right? When you've gotten to a certain point where a person's not willing to accept a thing about you that you can't control very well, or you're It's something that you are working on controlling, but the person you are now is not who they are able to support. Relationships can be done. And I get a lot of flack, by the way, for this one. Like, a successful relationship is not one that lasts for 50 years. A successful relationship is one where both people walk away better people. And that may be a one night stand, or it may be 50 years, it may be 10 years. Y'all said something early on, and it really resonated with me. Who we are like when we're 18 is drastically different than who we are when we're 28. And so you may fall in love with a person when you're 18, and as y'all grow through life, you may grow apart. You may grow in different ways. You may not grow in the other person grows. So it's really important to understand that sometimes a relationship really needs to be evaluated. And if you want to go through therapy, great. If you want to go through that and work together and try to heal and find that compromise and that common ground, that's awesome. But if therapy doesn't help, if the other person's not willing to go to therapy, if the other person doesn't see anything wrong, and you are dealing with a lot of issues that are not being taken care of, you know, differing sexual sexual needs, right? One person's hypersexual, the other person's asexual. There's no real compromises there if the, if you both deal with those different issues. So then you have to kind of then really look at things, and if it's not going to get better, Recognize that it's not going to get better, because if you don't do that, you're going to spend 2, 5, 6, 7, 20 years just being hateful and bitter towards each other, and causing trauma, after trauma, after trauma, after trauma, and I know some people out there have kids and you're like, but I want to stay with my partner, because I've got kids and I want them to have a healthy home. Are they in a healthy home where both parents start being hate hateful towards each other? Because I understand that the, the trauma from a divorce is painful. However, it's significantly better for a short term trauma issue. Rather than years and years of people showing you a dysfunctional relationship. And children will heal from a divorce. They are going to have a significantly harder time healing from PTSD and complex PTSD over years and years of parents being hateful. And they are going to be 98 percent more likely to be in dysfunctional relationships because that's what was modeled to them. So, I just want to kind of add to that.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:01:09

Yeah, exactly, right? Because it's what's modeled, right? Like, one of the things that I always thought was interesting about my parents, because they're, they celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. That like, like they would, I would never see them actually fight in front of us. So after dinner, every night, there are a couple of times they would walk around the block. And like, I only found out so recently, that was the time when they'd have their big arguments or discussions or the big things that was going on. They would happen there. So when they came into the house, they came in as a unified front. Like they, they had come to a conclusion to a resolution that like, so then when we saw it, we were like, okay, that was. Like, a lot of the things that we that we do, like, it's slightly kind of modeled off what I've learned from my parents. A little bit of how they kind of talk to each other and show, like, show their love and affection and, like, seeing that, that's

Laura: 1:02:01

I had the opposite experience, like, what you were saying, Shane. I had Parents that yelled and slammed doors and stayed together until the bitter ends. And my mom like got married twice, divorced twice. And I totally agree with you. If you're not growing with your partner, if you're not evolving, if you're not learning a lot of that has to be in a relationship. Otherwise it's not going to work. It's got definitely got to be compromises and landing.

Shane Thrapp: 1:02:30

Okay. Has a question and then I have one more question from the chat.

Pav: 1:02:34

Yeah, I just, I think I've wrote in the chat, but I'll just go over it. Dave, you, thank you for obviously giving this, but I think you mentioned earlier on, you and Laura mentioned that you guys hold this space, like, even, like, after an argument, you kind of, like, managed to hold that space in, like, a positive way and, like, positive reinforcement. How do you, like, end up communicating? with like your partner that without coming across in like that argumentative way even if you're feeling like annoyed and like just not annoyed at the person but like annoyed at yourself about the situation and how do you like hold that space obviously using like the I statements but like Barring using I statements

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:03:21

It'd be first by owning your own feelings Of not like towards the person like, you know, i'm just really annoyed at the situation like, to use a an example our current living situation. Both of us are really annoyed about our current living situation Both of us recognize Like, you know, we really don't want to be where we currently are at But at the same time we're like, all right at the moment and like I think a lot of issues can come around Especially when it come around money Like I think it's another thing that where we can be really annoyed at certain things and things that happen And it's like owning of like, okay if i'm feeling annoyed about something All right, why is that triggering me? Where is this coming from? And so owning your side of the street first and foremost and not putting it on the other person Or if you're gonna put it anywhere put it on the situation itself Of like this situation annoys me We're both stuck in this this lifeboat together and i'm pissed off at the fact that we're stuck in the lifeboat And they'd be like, yeah, i'm pissed off too like So you can kind of I don't know if that does that answer your do you want to add on that?

Laura: 1:04:29

i'm trying to think like when we've had arguments like that how we've dealt with it it's I think the main one is honestly just this having a bit of space when we're in the heat of that moment Because if i'm angry or you're angry, it's not going to come across in a kind of positive way no matter how we try to Frame it like trying to find a tool that works for you like an emotional regulation kind of tool like journaling or You Going for a walk or exercising, whatever, or playing a game, whatever can work for you. Cause honestly, it's that step away that really helps us to get out of that. That heightened

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:05:07

yeah, because you're at height you're in a heightened state, right? So the like like we were saying before like your emotions are running the show Your logic isn't right like you're not coming from a logical point of view You're not coming from like your higher self. You're coming from that lowest denominator And so it's like, okay Let's take a breath and even just like taking a few breaths Even if you can't like leave obviously like all right, let's can we just take a few minutes and we do meditation together So it's like that helps of where We'll just kind of like, all right, let's just And especially when you're feeling really like recognized to, especially with emotional dysregulation, like when you're feeling really in those heightened emotions and you're like fighting and you're arguing and stuff. Notice where your breath is at your breath is typically shallow. Your breath is usually your shortness of breath, and you're usually your mind is racing 1000 like really fast you're like this and I'm angry right so but by taking in more, more oxygen right this is what happens when you breathe, big breaths all the way into the belly. Like what I think that does I like to associate to a gas pedal when you take that big breath in you're taking the gas Pedal off the mind you're adding more oxygen into the brain into the body So that everything can start to slow down and when you do that your heart rate starts to slow down So the brain starts to slow down everything starts to slow down so that the emotions can kind of settle and Just as I think I probably talked about this one in the meetings before of like when you're in a real heightened emotional state and you're like Having a hard time to get out of your head about it even taking a few minutes to just put your hand on the chest, on the belly, and then feel the physical sensations in the body. What this does is when you start to bring awareness, alright, I'm feeling right now, like, my heart is racing, my palms are sweaty, my like, stomach feels like it's really rumbling a lot, I'm disassociating this word of I'm angry, or I'm pissed off. Like and i'm now associating like I am just having these physical sensations in the body. I'm bringing awareness so I can Disassociate this word that i've quickly associated that i've associated through past experiences or traumas To this feeling it may not be what you're actually like What's actually going on? You've created a word because that's how the brain likes to Categorize things that make things sense. Yeah. Thank you so much

Shane Thrapp: 1:07:34

I want to also add to that, this kind of goes back to what I said earlier, have these conversations before anything starts to pop off, right? Like, let them know that you're going to need some space if you start getting dysregulated, and what to look for when you are getting dysregulated. Like, Like what it looks like this, this kind of goes into a couple of different things. Understanding what ADHD looks like, having a conversation with your partner and teaching them what your ADHD looks like. Hey, if I have a really, really strong response to something. It's okay to tell me to go for a walk, and I'm giving you permission to tell me for a walk. I may get mad at you at the time, but I need to, I need to be able to get to a space where I can calm down. And then, when you're in that space where you can start calming down, start really paying attention to how you're feeling, your physical feeling. This is like kind of Dave was talking about. This is actually a therapy technique to start to understand your emotions overall, understanding the physical part of your emotions helps you start identifying those emotions earlier on more often before that you have the emotional dysregulation moment. And it's all about practicing and understanding. This isn't a short term thing. This is a long term, for the rest of your life, kind of thing. You have to start identifying different triggers and different responses you have, in different ways, so that you're able to have a better understanding of your emotional expressions and stuff like that.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:09:14

And one thing I would add on there is like, okay, so when do you have this conversation, right? So I feel like that's the conversation after your honeymoon phase, right? So like, every relationship has that honeymoon phase for the first few months when we're still kind of wearing our masks a little bit. And like, That's not an easy conversation to have. That's a very vulnerable conversation to have because it's like, this is how you have to deal with me. So as you're starting to live it, move in together, or you're in that kind of like three to six month kind of range of like, all right, where we want to see where this goes and kind of get a little bit more deep in the relationship, right? You want to create that more emotional depth. This is one of those conversations to do it. Like I think we did it over like a dinner or I think we were in the park, like

Laura: 1:09:59

Oh, yeah, yeah a couple of different situations like over go now for a meal and having those discussions is really good because You're not really necessarily able to get heightened in your emotions, in a sense, because you're in public. So you're aware of people around you and stuff like that. And the park is also really good because nature is just generally calming.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:10:22

Yeah, there was a few times when we were living in Sawbridge, we'd be like, alright, hey, let's go for a walk to our tree. And then we'd sit underneath our tree and we'd have like,

Laura: 1:10:30

Oh, yeah, that was my favorite time to yeah.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:10:33

And that was like our kind of way to have that intense conversation there and then. So it wasn't happening in the house. So it was almost we were taking the energy outside the house doing it where It was like neutral grounds Yeah like, this is a comfortable place where we can feel that we can kind of openly talk about it.

Shane Thrapp: 1:10:53

So I want to, I want to kind of go to another question that's tangentially related to something somebody else asked. So if you're in a relationship and you don't have ADHD or your ADHD tendencies are not as severe, but you're with a person who has severe ADHD, how do you get them to understand your, your needs and your and your need for like showing love when they don't seem to understand how to communicate or express those kinds of things?

Laura: 1:11:23

It would, it's a good question in the sense that I think it applies to us because you always say I have ADHD but I, I've always said even if I found out I had it, I found ways to cope with it and I found ways to acknowledge it, whereas you have ADHD and you've done the test, so like, for, for me with you, I realized I had to express it because otherwise I wouldn't get it, because your way of arguing and dealing with things is to kind of close down, whereas mine is like, I really need, that love and that affection in that moment. And now you're very good at being like, how can I help? What do you need in this moment? Do you want to hug? Do you want some lower time? Do you want to journal? Whereas you didn't do that at the beginning. So I had to learn to express it because I would be the one out of two of us that would express more with that stuff

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:12:14

Yeah no, that that makes a lot of sense because it was it's clearly communicating your wants and needs right and Clearly communicating of like there's been a few times. I remember. Like a few weeks ago. You're like Yeah, you know feeling kind of low and I don't know and I was like playing the game or something And like it clicked in my head. It's like do you want to snuggle right now? Do you just

Speaker 4: 1:12:36

is that what you need? Because like like like early in the relationship i'd be like, okay, cool Are you all good? All right. Yeah, i'm fine. I'm, okay All right, cool. She said she's fine. I'm just gonna

Laura: 1:12:47

yeah I wasn't able to express it at that point. Like I felt very vulnerable expressing it to dave like I need that love or I need that affection. And then what would end up happening is we'd argue for weeks about silly things because I hadn't expressed it. Until I would eventually come back around and be like, I just really wanted a hug in that moment, and you didn't give me one, you know?

Shane Thrapp: 1:13:12

So there's a, there's a really important thing there. Like, Laura, how do you deal with that rejection feeling right there, though?

Laura: 1:13:22

Oh, that's a tough one.

Shane Thrapp: 1:13:24

It's a tough one. You know, as somebody, and my wife has to deal with this as neurotypical, even though she's a special needs teacher. It's I struggled with the same thing. My autistic ass was just like, she's fine. Okay, cool. But she had to have the same kind of. Discussion. Hey, I really need you to understand that when I need something Like I need you to really be in the moment Like how do you deal with that rejection though, especially from your perspective as a woman or perceived rejection?

Laura: 1:14:00

Very good with the question shane. I gotta give it. Yeah, it takes me a moment to answer at the beginning, I think it was like so overwhelming that I couldn't really It still even came up the other day where I was like, sometimes I feel like when you go silent when we have a, like, disagreement, my instant thought is he's going to leave me or abandon me. And I was like, and that comes from like, in a child, Laura, that doesn't come from me now, Laura. But with the feeling of the rejection, the journaling, again, has became a lifesaver for me. Like, if you're somebody that, Is how it just feels like your brain is in constant overdrive, like would highly recommend doing two pages a day of just anything because that really helped with not letting my emotions take the seat so much. And then when I'm in that moment, I feel rejected usually because I know you need your space, but if we've had like a discussion or a disagreement and I feel like I have to step away. Okay. I'll usually come back to you sooner and be like actually I really just kind of need your support and your love right now because I feel, I'm feeling this or that and then you'll kind of realize okay, maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm perceiving to be a little bit cold and Laura just kind of needs this in this moment. But at the beginning that was hard work because it was really difficult for me to express that with you.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:15:27

Because it's vulnerable, because it's, it's, it's getting to that vulnerability and meaning that like right now I need intimacy. And intimacy doesn't necessarily mean sex, it means to be Like, that, like, I'm opening up my soul to the other person here, of like, here is my heart on a platter here, and like, you just rejected it, and like, and it's like, really easy for us to like, especially if I'm hyper focused on something, to not be aware of it, so, like, we've had to have these discussions, and I think one of the things that really helped us And this is we did this towards the beginning of the the pandemic we did this book together We got through about 90 of it 80 of it the artist way so when you talk about those journaling pages and everything else This was an activity that we did together at the beginning of the lockdown And as much as it's about kind of breaking artistic blocks. It was also really good for our, it was also a great relationship tool for us as well, because it taught us how to have like our artist dates, like, all right, we need to have our alone time. And it comes back down to building that first, that relationship, I think with yourself first. So when you're feeling comfortable and safe that I can open it up, open my heart up. And cause at the beginning I was really cold because I had been rejected so many times or i've been kind of perceived and hurt Like the perception of a lot of hurt that it was hard for me to open it up and be vulnerable to drop the masks like I don't know if you guys seen that kind of thing that's going around of like If you're a man, would you rather tell a woman your feelings or tell a tree right? Like and I know so many like guys like i'd rather tell a tree because they're so afraid that if they open themselves up That past experiences that they're going to get hurt So we start I start with little things, and then it's a slow process of being able to open up to be really kind of vulnerable. Like, it wasn't something that I could do overnight, nor could I think I could do.

Laura: 1:17:24

No, same with me. I really struggled with that at the beginning.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:17:27

So we had to start small and work our way up.

Shane Thrapp: 1:17:29

Yeah, and so there's an important thing there that a lot of people need to understand. Our time blindness. We sometimes see failure and want to make changes. And we do make changes in our lives, but we still have to understand that it's going to take time. To get to that better place. Just because you say I'm sorry one time doesn't erase the pain from the past yet. But if you continue to show that you're working on being a better person, and you're working on those things, it's much easier to heal when those things happen. So, but just recognize that this takes time. This isn't an instantaneous process, right? It took me and my wife, like, me and her were really honest up front. It And we really developed a really seriously honest relationship throughout the first few months, because I had gotten to a place where I had learned to not mask so much. And then my wife proved to me that she was safe in a lot of really small ways. And then I was able to eventually start making those small things happen to the point of me being able to eventually say, I don't do sex. Very well, after six months with a woman, that's how my ADHD works. I get bored with the shiny. It's really bad. It's not, and it's something that's so bad that even with years and years of therapy, I haven't ever been able to get past that. My wife is a perfectly healthy, sexual person. She has a healthy sex drive. What's the communication that we need to have there. Now, this is something that is. Like, hugely vulnerable for me, especially as a man, because that's part of our thing. We're supposed to be that, right? So, those conversations have to happen early on. Because how they react to that situation, is going to tell you a lot about them. If in that situation my wife had laughed at me or something, or been derogatory towards me, I would have felt really hurt, but I also would have known that she wasn't a person for me. And recognizing that at that point, okay, cool. That relationship is done. Take the no for what it is.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:20:01

And I think especially for men, right? Like when we get to that point of why is it hard for men to get vulnerable and honest with their partners, right? It's this fear that if I say something there of like, I let you in on to the kind of the Trevor shows of those really kind of Deep wounds and everything else the fear that like in an argument three months down the road You're going to use that against me or it's going to like come back to haunt me Like it causes them to close up more because they're like, all right If I say it, it's going to come back and hurt me and then like why would I give them ammunition? And it's not allowing for openness Like it's recognizing that if anyone like is coming to you and being really vulnerable and honest You It's being able to hold that space for them to do that to recognize how scary that is That if you had to put the your shoes on the other foot Like you would see wow, that's really fucking brave and courageous to do that And if they're gonna laugh or snigger at you or make a derogatory comment You're like your immediate reaction is going to be like oh no protect And then the likelihood of you ever opening up again to that person Is probably very little to none you will put on a mask to be like give them only just what they need or what they want, but you will never ever open up again to them because you will be like I If I do it, you're just gonna come punch me right in the gut

Laura: 1:21:29

and they're like there is still a stigma attached with Unfortunately, like with men not being able to open up so much and women being the emotional ones that open up and want to talk to us or talk about the problems and for you, it's taken you a long way to get through that communication and get better at it. And he's distracted because he read the message.

Speaker 4: 1:21:52

I read the messages. No, but I completely agree. They're beautiful messages in there.

Shane Thrapp: 1:22:03

You're not supposed to read the messages. I read the messages. I'm the producer. I'll tell you what you should be reading. No, I do want to kind of dig into something because we were talking about vulnerability and, and having those conversations early on. Like, if you don't know a whole lot about your, about your emotions, how you express them, you may know that you get emotionally dysregulated and everything. But if you're early on in your journey with learning about ADHD and how emotional dysregulation, how do you have that conversation when you don't know what your triggers are for emotional dysregulation, what it looks like? How do you have that conversation early on with a person that. You know, like y'all said, after the honeymoon phases, when you have that conversation, but what if you really haven't figured it out or don't have the resources to figure out yourself yet, you're kind of still in that, that, that baby step first part of ADHD learning.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:23:01

So like, I think there's two ways of going about this, right? So a, like one of the things I do with a lot of my clients is that even though a lot of it is a lot about kind of like, all right, here's how to go talk to people and get built, develop your social skills. It's you know, one of the things I do about halfway through is like, all right You need to take yourself on a date, right? Like before you can kind of come to the table to someone else in a partnership You need to start understanding yourself and then recognizing that so let's say that you're married You've been married for a while and you just got your adhd diagnosis and you're like, all right Things are starting to make sense to be like look i'm on this new journey of self discovery You And understanding what, what I'm about, what I'm learning about myself. I'm like a beginner at this journey. So like, I need some patience and understanding from you and some willingness and openness to work with me as I learn more, as we learn more together so that it can help me. So as I grow stronger, that means that I don't have to lean on you so much. And we can both grow stronger together.

Laura: 1:24:11

Yeah, no, I agree. And one of the big shifts with us, I think, because obviously I'm into like the spiritual and the like, especially the spiritual kind of traditions and rituals was doing the forgiveness ceremony together, where it's meant to be for like money forgiveness, but we've started to use it more for forgiveness within the relationship as well, where we'll kind of go through I feel like when you have a space or you're opening up the space to discuss tough things and it's almost allowed to discuss those tough situations for us, that's really when we are able to express a lot of that stuff and then kind of forgive it together. I always felt like that really helped me and you as well.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:24:57

Yeah No, it was we carved out that time, right? Like we carved out that time. We made it a ritual We made it into and like we're not talking like, all right, we're you know, dancing around the campfire Kind of thing. It's like no. All right. We light a candle or two We're like we created a space you're great at ambience Like you're really really great at creating a cute space out of things. So we created a space that was kind of safe that we'd walk into like, all right, here's our circle of trust. Basically. Here's what we're gonna like All right, here's the fruit things that we need to forgive and It would be a lot about even though it started initially with kind of money forgiveness It turned into forgiveness about like, you know Just kind of whatever the issues were that we're kind of dealing with that that were bothering us and it was like look I forgive this I need to let this go because there's the Because we talked about amends. A forgiveness is really about learning to let go of that baggage that you've been holding on to so you can stop carrying it on and stop bringing it into the relationship. Learning to let that go so it isn't like the thing that nagging or holding onto your soul or holding on to your mind. I'll

Laura: 1:26:08

write the the thing in the chat just of the forgiveness prayer that we use because it's been definitely really helpful for both of us. Unless you know how to spell it. Go for it. It's like a long word.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:26:21

Yeah, I know someone put in there about dyslexia. I have dyslexia too. I'm terrible at spelling. Oh the Hoponohonoho prayer. Yeah you can find this online

Shane Thrapp: 1:26:31

Yeah, and I want to kind of add to that this also goes into you know at this point just like with any kind of thing that you're discovering that's a That's a disabling factor about your life. If you get sick, if you if you're dealing with understanding mental illness, if you're now learning that you have ADHD and or autism, at this point, if there is a lot of damage that's happened through the years, like to Dave and Laura's point, you have to be able to have that conversation and then start showing that you are working on it. And really ask for them to help you kind of support through this, have a little bit of patience and grace while you're learning, hopefully, please learn with me. And, Like, it's really about taking that time to really at least show that vulnerability of, I'm trying to learn what's going on, but I don't know anything yet. I'm working on it though. Will you work on it with me? And if they're not willing to go on a journey with you, If there's too much pain, if there's too much hurt, if there's too much stress, too much frustration, too many money issues, and they're just not willing to go with you on that, you've really got to evaluate that relationship from that point on, because if they're not, if they aren't really willing to work with you on it, then it's not going to get any better, you should still go on a journey and hopefully they'll see over time that you are making those changes and then they become more open to it. To learning and being more about it, but if they never get to that place within a decent time frame, and it's always, you're trying to grow, but they're not to echo what Laura said earlier. At that point, you have to evaluate the relationship and that sucks. I'm telling you right now. It sucks. It sucks way less than being in a really horrible dysfunctional relationship though.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:28:34

And going to your point too of what you're saying about kind of like, as things come up, I thought about my parents. So, my mom, um, they found that she's having early, starting the very early stages of Alzheimer's. And so, What my dad is doing is like, okay, what are things that will help with your memory? Like they got a ping pong table. They're like, all right, what activities can we do to help your memory? What are reinforcements? And there's a lot of like I recognize on my dad's part the like the word that you used right willingness All right. I'm willing to work with you. I'm willing to do it, right? It comes down to are you willing or not? Are you willing or unwilling right? Like are you open or are you closed? Are you honest or you dishonest, right? Like, it comes down to that how of like, if, you know, they're not really being honest, open, or willing, then, it kind of depends on both people, if neither are coming up to be honest, open, and willing, Then neither is going to grow, right? Like, and if one person is doing it, the other, isn't one's going this way, the other one staying there and you're just, that divides going to get bigger and bigger, like for us, this is what it comes back down to that self love and that self relationship, I work on me, you work on me, we grow together and we grow up, you know, we both have our own things to work on first and foremost, before we come into the relationship.

Shane Thrapp: 1:29:58

All right. Last question. And this is coming from the men's group itself. How do you date people when you have ADHD? How do you start that conversation? There's kind of multiple different things, but like, how do you date when you have ADHD and you're trying to figure out how to find that partner or how to find those people? Like, how do you do that? Like, rejection sensitivity dysphoria or, rejection sensitivity. How do you deal with being rejected so many times because, you know, online dating is ruthless now? How do you deal with that?

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:30:33

So first and foremost, I personally, right, I know a lot of people have had success on online dating and dating apps and things like that. I've never had success on them. Like just from a statistical kind of point of view, like there's, you know, as guys you get, like you send out a thousand messages as a woman, you get 10, 000 messages. It's hard to stick out on there. Like I think as an ADHD person, we have Our passions and our hyper focuses and things that we love to do So like for us like, you know, I really enjoyed doing the laughter yoga. I I hung around and I went to environments That I felt comfortable and I could thrive in that. I enjoyed I was doing dancing boxing at the time The laughter yoga stand up comedy and like a lot of things going on when I first started dating You And I wasn't necessarily looking for a partner per se but like to get over there, like, but I was like putting myself in environments where I know I could thrive and shine. And that's so that my authenticity came out in a really natural way. I wasn't pushing, I wasn't forcing, I wasn't trying to wear masks. I was just being me and being comfortable enough with me. I do feel though, as ways to get over the kind of. That initial approach anxiety, is learning how to take baby steps with it So one of the things I do with my clients first week That they have to do like their first what during the first few weeks of the channel of their challenges Is they have to go up to first hit shop keepers of the regular shops they go to And say hi and if they have a name tag use the name tag And then it goes to say hi to three people on the street randomly and it's you build little steps You And then you start to recognize when you start to interact with people the more times you do it The rejection is still there and it can happen But you start to get used to it because you have more evidence of it working than not working And you start to build more evidence and that's how you gain confidence, right? Confidence just doesn't come out of nowhere confidence comes from the evidence of doing a thing over and over again You're like, all right that succeeds And when I was like kind of hitting the streets a lot and I would get rejected a lot But I also got a lot of thrill out of going up and talking to him. Like I turned it into Not like whether or not I got rejected It was like can I go and like the challenge was can I go and say hello? Can I go and then try to keep the conversation going for five minutes? Can I keep the conversation going and then get a phone number and then it became a challenge You know what whatever happened with them didn't matter Like, they could say yes, no, like, I removed them from the equation. Even when I started dating Laura and wanted to get serious with it, I was like, I've never been in a serious relationship. Okay, let's make this an experiment because at the time if I wanted to like this is going to be the first I'm going to spend the rest of my life with way too intense. I'd be like, oh fuck. No, I can't do this

Laura: 1:33:34

You were also very subtle about the fact that you liked me as well to the point where I had to kind of ask dave for a drink and I was kind of like We should really go for a drink and you were kind of like, yeah, and obviously like you don't drink.

Dave: 1:33:50

Yeah.

Laura: 1:33:50

And then I was like, no, really, we should go for a drink. And that was my way of being like, if you reject me, I'm not going to ask again. And he was very cool, calm and collected with, by that point, because you've done all of the rejection stuff.

Shane Thrapp: 1:34:05

So I'm gonna put Dave on the spot here. Dave, were you cool, calm, and collected about it? Or were you just super shy and this beautiful woman was asking you out on a to go to

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:34:13

So, well, cause I initially thought she, like, A, had a boyfriend. So I was, like, trying to find out for, like, a few weeks of kind of, like, sussing out her situation. And, like, When she initially mentioned the drink after we had, like, because I was like, all right, like, no, I'm really attracted to her. We're switching the classes. And I was hesitant about the drink question because of the fact that I don't drink. And I hadn't talked about that. I was sober at the time. Like, I was like,

Laura: 1:34:39

yeah, I think you didn't really say until like two dates in

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:34:43

two dates in. Cause I was like, I was like, all right. Cause I didn't want to like, no, I don't want to go for a drink. Because I don't drink and then go into that whole conversation I was like and when she asked again, it's like no she is like really likes me. Let's go make this work Let's go We'll have the one it's gonna be okay like

Dave: 1:35:02

Yeah, and

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:35:03

then like the choice was like, all right I chose to do this because I really wanted to spend time with her. I was willing to make choice on it And so the really reason I was really hesitant Was just about that because it came down to the alcohol Because like usually before it would be when I had asked someone out It would be like, all right Let's go for a park date and then our like after we did the classes our first date was to the park Because for me I find park dates to be great dates we went and we went to the grocery store and we like went around picked out all the stuff and then made a picnic and she did my tarot and like it was just and then we started to really kind of bond and connect You

Shane Thrapp: 1:35:43

Yeah. So that's the extrovert answer y'all. The introvert answer. Actually, this is something that is a little bit different about me and Dave. I am an actual introvert. I do force myself to be extroverted for stuff like this. But the other thing is, it's like, for me, online dating was successful, but before I even knew I had ADHD and everything, I had actually started to learn to accept rejection. Right? I know that this is going to happen and that acknowledgement that yes, I am going to be rejected needed to kind of be in a logical manner for me because autism and I came up with a You know a progression of numbers that I expected so for every ten people I was going to message I fully expected five people to reject me Three people would probably be interested in having a conversation online. One of those people I'll probably go on a date with and because I was able to put it into into a mindset that I understood when I got rejected, it just I took the no for what it was to mirror something Marc Almodovar has said. I took the no for what it was. No. Okay, cool. Those five people who actually responded and said hey to me, awesome, excellent, I celebrated that factor. The three people where I actually had a pretty cool conversation with, and the two people who just like, they ghosted me or whatever, I just focused on those three. And out of those three, when that one person wanted to go on a date with me and they were open to it, celebrate it, let's go have fun. And just I put my, who I was on my profile. Now I didn't put all the nitty gritty and stuff like that. And I didn't do the overshare and stuff along those lines. But I really did put a lot of who I really was on there, because, you know, maybe there is a super hot chick that I wanted to talk to, but she was super hardcore into fishing. I'm not, right? Maybe there was a really beautiful person who was really into clubbing and going dancing. I'm not, I want to start with a relationship that actually has the potential to grow into something, so like you said, I want to find the nerdy chick, or I want to find the gamer girl, or I want to find somebody who will put up with that factor in me, so I'm honest about being a gamer. Like, I don't want to be with a person who's going to be really crappy towards me because I'm a gamer. Now do I want them next to me playing Call of Duty? Sometimes. But, at the same time, that's not a requirement for me. I just want them to be okay with the fact that I am a gamer though. And so being honest about those things up front, as much as you're comfortable in being on your dating profile, or even what you're saying to the person, really helps find people who are actually going to be potentially worth your time. Because if they don't like those things about you, They're probably never going to like those things about you, and if that's divide is too much there. But as far as the rejection is concerned, start to own the rejection that's going to happen.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:39:06

Yeah, and it's also I think it's a filtering process, right? Like when you start to recognize that I need to start filtering out Who's a good fit for me and who isn't a good fit for me? And it came down to for us of like You had a kind of a list of all the things that you were looking for in a partner I had a list of kind of what I was looking for and so we kind of went from there So like you go have fun and like you said, especially in, like, dating itself, it's, it's statistics, you're gonna have to talk to a lot of people to get to the, the few that you find, but it's going through that journey gets you to that person. If I hadn't done all that work of, like, four years of, like, kind of going out, practicing my dating and social skills and getting and putting myself out there, When Laura was presented to me, I wouldn't have been able to pull the trigger at all. Like, I needed all that experience to help me get to that point.

Laura: 1:39:57

Yeah, same as with me. Like, I did a lot of work before I met Dave, and I don't think I would have even had the, the balls to like, be like, hey, let's go for a drink. Unless I was kind of at that moment where I'd done a lot of that kind of inner work. I wasn't afraid to pose that question, you know.

Shane Thrapp: 1:40:19

We just had a question in the comments section, and Dave, I, I want your feedback, but I also have words on this as well because this is my problem. Do people with ADHD, like, switch off relationships, like, when they get bored? Like, how true is that?

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:40:36

I think that's true. I, I know I had a few of the relationships I had before you, that, like, after a while, you get kind of bored. One of the things that, like, that my mindset shift about it was, To find it was from this book Dan Millman Way of the Peaceful Warrior book and one of the main concepts out of there is there's no ordinary moments. Every moment is extraordinary. So you recognize that all the little moments you have with someone and recognizing that if you're looking for a partner for a lifetime, you're going to have a lot more boring moments. Then you are going to have exciting, crazy adventures. So if you can make the everyday kind of exciting and interesting and bringing a little joy. One thing I always loved about Laura is that she's a firecracker. Like, it's like up and down, like keeps me on my toes. And I really like that because it keeps me interested. It keeps me engaged, you know, like having that engagement and like, you know, we can have our quiet moments and everything else, but it's like we find like Like we get little joys. I don't know about you But I get little joys when we go to the like go doing the shopping together. Like

Laura: 1:41:43

yeah Also, we're like quite independent people. So like when we have that time together, it's it's quite fun and like playful because we're not living out of each other's pockets all the time. That really helps eliminate that, that bottom, at least for me. Cause it's like, our time is so special together.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:42:02

Yeah, we make, we make the time sacred or special.

Shane Thrapp: 1:42:06

Yeah, and so this is my biggest issue of every relationship I've ever been with outside of my current wife. And I'm going to bring the science here as well to answer that question, just so that everybody has a firm understanding. This is super common. It's just like our hobbies. It's just like the work that we do. The thing about people with ADHD is we have an interest based nervous system. That's our mindset. Everything that is going to be something that we can focus on, or do for long term periods of time, anything that we're going to keep in our lives, have to focus on our interests. And it's very difficult for us to go outside of that. Because that's literally how our brains are wired, is an interest based mindset. Whereas neurotypical people have an importance based mindset. And it's much easier for them to be in relationships for longer periods of time because they lay importance on that relationship. And it's easier for them to maintain it for longer periods of time. However, for people with ADHD, if there isn't that constant growth and joy of being around each other and, those moments that you make special and sacred. And that ongoing kind of development of the relationship, then it's going to be very difficult to be in that relationship. Now I've been with my wife for 12 years now, and it's because she and I developed a relationship where we understood certain things about ourselves. Again, like I said earlier, like after six months, sex isn't a thing for me, really. It's, it's sporadic one, two, four, five times a year, maybe. And it's very difficult for me to get past that. And so you can just kind of imagine what my dating scene looked like y'all. Cause that's what it was. But what I learned was that's something I needed to be honest with people up front with and being truthful about it, even if it was going to be me having to share something that was that vulnerable about myself. Because if I didn't, then I was going to hurt people. Because nobody wants to hear, and nobody will hear, after six months, somebody say, I'm really bored with this sex. They're going to feel rejected. They're going to feel like there's something wrong with them. If I don't verbalize that, and I just kind of not have sex with them, they're going to feel rejected. They're going to feel like there's something wrong with them. So, that's one of those places where I really had to take that mask off early on. And just be honest about it so that I could save people that pain if I could. It still hurts, but it hurts less if you know about it.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:45:13

And it's also, you were taking ownership, right? You were taking ownership for your side of the street. It had nothing to do with them at all. It was your, it was you and it's, and it's recognizing and taking ownership of your issues, your things, your ADHD, your stuff, right? And it's taking ownership.

Shane Thrapp: 1:45:32

It was one of those moments where it's, it literally is not you. It's definitely me. And I don't mean that in the cliche moment. It literally is just my brain works in a different way that. You know, I'm working on it and I want to be a better person. That's why I'm being honest with you about it. However, that's not something you're cool with. Then the relationship's probably going to end. And again, that's kind of one of those places where I had to learn that relationships. When we walk away, better people are the successful ones, not the ones where we force ourselves through things that Are just not natural to who we are. And it's, it's about owning who we are and being authentic to that person, as much as you're able to be within a relationship you're in.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:46:20

Yeah. I was, I was thinking about a moment when we first started dating and it was like, probably one of the cheesiest things I probably ever said to you. You always laugh at this. I was like we were at the the canal and I was like we were getting serious It was like look and I was like I don't date I have lovers all over the world Because at the time though, that was kind of my mindset, but I was willing to kind of change that but I was like honest With this is where you're like, look i'm looking for a long term thing. Like I haven't done long term. This was not what I was initially like i'm Open to it, but I wasn't like

Laura: 1:46:53

you were very honest about that as fast people went so honest about that They kind of just like ghosted me So, I really appreciated that honesty at the beginning, because I knew what was, you know, in front of me in that sense.

Shane Thrapp: 1:47:07

All right. We are at time. Everyone. I really appreciate everybody coming. Dave, Laura, any final words that y'all have that you don't think y'all covered or anything that y'all would like to just kind of let everybody know.

Laura: 1:47:20

I don't, I, Let's just

Shane Thrapp: 1:47:22

throw her on the spot.

Laura: 1:47:26

A bit of a warning would have been nice.

Shane Thrapp: 1:47:29

I tried, I put it in the chat.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:47:31

No, no, I so, I think for me, final thoughts, right? Like, recognizing that, you know, relationships are a with and not an at or a for, they're not for you, they're with, it's someone to grow with, and making sure that you're both growing I think is really key in any relationship and not even just, I know we've been talking mostly about romantic relationships, but a lot of these things can also apply to friendships, to business relationships, to co workers, bosses, and things like that, knowing how to get kind of vulnerable and honest. Like, I went and applied for a job the other week at this spar deli thing, and during the interview, I felt like, kind of, I connected with the, with the person, and I was like, you know what, I'm just going to lay cards on the table here. Here is, I have ADHD, This is how it would affect my work, but this is also where it would also really succeed. This is where I may need some help. So if you do hire me you're like, you know full in what you're getting you know half expecting because i've done that in a lot of interviews and I got a lot of rejection for it I even had one guy said never say that in an interview. That's the worst thing you can ever do Like no one will ever hire you And that really affected me too. But when they, like, when I was filling out the paperwork, like, her and her husband came in and was like, you know what, we really appreciated that you were up front and honest with us. Like, being like, and learning how to be up front and honest, Is not just info dumping it all on there, but it's once again, not what you say, but how you say it to Make sure that it's come across and heard That you're not putting it on them of like now you have to deal with this like no This is my stuff like even like my thing like You know, I don't do girlfriends like I have lovers blah blah blah. It was like that's me, right? Like I wasn't like you have to now be one of those people. I was like, no, this is what I do This is what i've done in the past, you know but you know Like I was i'm willing to change i'm willing to grow i'm willing to compromise if we can if we want to make this work Because at the time I was like, okay I'm only going to be in Ireland for another year that I was thinking about moving to Estonia through the Radisson, but I was like

Laura: 1:49:44

and I love a good challenge. Yeah

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:49:48

So that would be like the biggest thing that I've learned is to Learn how to forgive quick and recognize that, you know, and to work on myself first, because if I'm not coming to the relationship 100 then I'm probably going to be taking something. And not all days I'm going to be 100. There's going to be days where I don't have the spoons and learning how to ask for help, something I still struggle with.

Laura: 1:50:10

You're much better at it. Yeah.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:50:12

But learning how to ask for help, learning to ask for what I want and need in a moment. And knowing that it's okay for the other, like, They will reciprocate, they'll be there for it and it won't be just kind of flat out rejected or made fun of or laughed at.

Shane Thrapp: 1:50:29

Laura, have you thought about anything you wanted to say last?

Laura: 1:50:32

I think maybe just figuring out the love languages and the fight languages was a big one for me with Dave. I kind of just understood. It helped me not take things so personally and get stuck into that rejection. Definitely because I understand him and how his brain works a lot more now. Also just being willing to, like, figure out. How your partner's ADHD may affect the relationship was another big one with me. And that was where I really saw the, the changes within our relationship and how much we argued and how we got through the arguments, definitely.

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:51:07

And not taking things too personal,

Speaker 4: 1:51:09

right?

Dave O'Dwyer: 1:51:09

It's like, not taking everything as like, everything is not an attack. Sometimes it's just how things are. And recognizing, do you, like, why are you perceiving, like, why am I perceiving this as an attack? And usually, if you're triggered, it's something within you that you need to work on to recognize why is this coming up. Because it's an unresolved issue that's now showing itself. And this is an opportunity, instead of being like, oh, pissed off, you triggered me. Like, no, I have an opportunity to grow and learn why this happens and actually be able to move past it and grow.

Laura: 1:51:44

Yeah,

Shane Thrapp: 1:51:45

that's awesome. That's great. Final words. Thank you all so much for doing this for everybody out there. We are a nonprofit organization. We really do thrive on the donations and all of those different things that y'all purchase from us. We do have a merchandise shop on our website with some pretty cool stuff on there. We would really appreciate all of your support and love. If you like this and you enjoyed it, if you could share it, that'd be great. We really appreciate it. And by all means, take this to your significant other and just spend time learning about these different things together. Maybe this'll help them with a lot of what we've talked about. And I think with the questions that we got, I think there's a lot of things for both people. Or any people in a relationship can learn from. And a lot of this also applies to our friendships, too. A lot of this applies to that as well. There's a lot of ways where this crosses over with how we develop relationships with our friends. So, take some heart in what you're hearing here and learn to just start processing and getting as much knowledge about your ADHD as possible. You know, check out our blogs on the men's ADHD support group and really just open up in the group if you're in the group. And we really just appreciate everybody who came. Dave, Laura, we really appreciate y'all for being so open about this and having this really great conversation. And it's really heartening to see people having a successful relationship, even when ADHD is involved. So, thank y'all so much. Laura, I really appreciate you putting up with Dave. Thank you. All right. Talk to y'all later, everyone. Y'all have a great day.

Laura: 1:53:30

Thank you guys. Thank you.