William Curb of Hacking Your ADHD - Celebrating 200 Episodes!

Welcome to the Men's ADHD Support Group Podcast! I’m Shane Thrapp, and today we’re joined by William Curb, host of Hacking Your ADHD, as he celebrates his 200th episode. We talk about how William started the podcast, the challenges of staying consistent with ADHD, and how podcasting helped him manage his own symptoms.

We also cover common ADHD myths, like the stereotype of laziness, and how body doubling and other hacks can really make a difference. Plus, William shares his thoughts on the future of his show, including potential new projects.

Check out Hacking Your ADHD on all platforms, and don’t miss out on our conversation!

Check out our website for great blogs, information, and upcoming events! Men's ADHD Support Group Website

If you identify as male and have ADHD Join our Facebook Group!

And follow us on all of our other social media!

Our Facebook Page

Our Instagram

Our Youtube:

Our Twitter

Our TikTok

Our LinkedIn

Transcript

Welcome to the Men's ADHD Support Group this is Shane Thrapp, operations director for the nonprofit that we run of the same name. I am joined today by William Curb of Hacking Your ADHD. One of the top ADHD podcasts out there in the world. William is a known speaker at the  international ADHD convention, 2023.

And he is joining us today to celebrate his 200th episode, William Curb. Welcome to the Men's ADHD Support Group  

thank you so much for having me. And thank you so much for doing this. Cause this is.  Crazy that it's like 200 episodes, and then also even crazier that I figured out that I needed to do this before it's happening. 

It's like, technically, I'm not actually at 200 yet, I'm at 198. I was like, telling my wife, like, oh, we should you know, I'm gonna be doing this recording for the 200th episode. She's like, we should celebrate. I'm like, well, that's still a couple weeks off. I have to do this, this part first.  

So  let's, let's get into it.

When did you create Hacking Your ADHD and like,  why did you create it? What motivated you for this?  

So it was culmination of a lot of things where  podcasting was something I'd been interested in. It was not the Hacking Your ADHD wasn't my first podcast, but I was like, I had previously done one on ultimate Frisbee that  I burned out on because of ADHD although at the time I did not know that I was like,  And it was me like, I want to do something like that again.

And so I had started doing ADHD coaching and figuring out more about how my ADHD works. And I was like,  I want to keep doing more of this stuff. I want to do more of this writing and I want to  get back into the podcast game and I would like to do these. At the time I had been really enjoying these, a lot of these short form content podcasts, that were just like, Hey, there's an idea, listen to the idea.

That's all the podcast is. And it was just like a host talking, usually not guest format. And I was like, these are great because  I can actually listen to the whole podcast in one go. And I can kind of get an idea. And it like,  that was enough to make me be like, this is inspiring me to do something with that time that I've just listened to this. 

I was like, I want to do the same thing, but with ADHD stuff.  

I like it. That's one of those things that I've done a bunch of podcasts. I've done one on ethical non-monogamy and ADHD, obviously we're on one. But I've also done some on just like. Whenever I was going through that atheist phase and just like kind of doing different things like that.

So it's just like, there's always some sort of joy when it comes to being able to share your thoughts out there into the world. And you've kind of turned that into  fairly popular podcast, like what's been the most surprising thing about this journey along the way? 

So I think, like, the most surprising thing  as someone with ADHD is that I'm still doing it. That there is a way to build in this, like,  consistency when I don't have a boss, when it's just something I am doing. I am doing this as my job now, and I'm working on doing some more monetization things so that I can continue doing it.

But.  Even so, like with ADHD, there is this, like,  maybe I'm just not going to wake up and not do it anymore. Kind of thing where  so many things in my life where I'm like, Oh yeah, I just stopped doing that. And then I go, why? And I like, I have no idea. And so having done this for now, almost five years, it's like, that's a ton of time to have sunk into this.

And yeah. So I mean, and if I do like the math of like, Oh, I have 200 episodes and it's five years. Well, that's  not an episode every, every week, but that's. Also a great, like,  yeah, I don't have to put up something new every week. Even if I'm not, there have been weeks I've missed just because  life  and being able to like, Oh, I can get back up on this horse.

And that's like been  something I've like thought about for, like, okay, how can I apply this to other areas? What, what are ways that I can kind of build in this resilience? Because that's  such a hard part about ADHD where you're just like, I don't know how I'm going to keep going.  

Yeah, definitely understand that, man.

Like, that consistency, of  It may not be every week, but we are doing it  as often as we possibly can.  You know, we've talked about this before in conversations that we've had and things along those lines, whenever we're trying to really develop that system that works for us, it's, learning about how the ADHD affects us and how to kind of process through the different things that we're processing. 

When you've kind of been working on all these different things, how often do you use the hacks that you're talking about in your own personal life that you're learning along the way? You talked about a couple of them. what, what's some of the ones that have really worked out for you in other ways? 

It's, one thing is just being like,  diving into the consistently inconsistent parts of things where I'm just like, hey, I don't have to do this the same way every time.  And then but yeah, also picking out the tools that work, you know, working with a time timer is one of the things that I like  just sits on my desk and I  click it on to make sure that I'm  taking breaks because that's one of the things that I, this is one of the topics I always harp on.

During episodes. It's like, hey, you need to stop sometimes and you need to take breaks. It's like there'll be days I'm like why I can't I think about the what next sentence needs to go in this episode and then I'm like Oh because I've been working for an hour and a half and that's way too long and I need to go take go for a walk So  I'm going for walks.

That's something I do all the time That is a tip that I always give people like hey get out side get some movement in Works great. Something I do all the time. And then trying to think of some of the other tips that I use frequently. I mean, accountability is one that I do. I will jump into a number of different accountability groups online and be like, Hey, I'm going to be working on this for the next hour and doing that.

Like coworking stuff is I think one of the  great ways to get things done. Although I'm like thinking like I've not done that in weeks and I don't know why.  Just haven't.  

I, yeah, me and my buddy Christian Rat of Focus101.Com. We're actually talking about that. And like he, he talks about, cause he runs that body doubling group.

I've talked about it before and,  and he was talking, he was like, I just don't understand why people don't use this as often as it, cause they have ADHD and they don't think about it. So we have to like work out to like, how do we give them reminders that don't get lost in the spam and things of that nature?

And I'm like, well, let's make sure we're giving them tips and tricks.  And I remember I was listening to your podcast is one you did on the body doubling and stuff like that. And I said, Hey, I've got a question. Like you have, you have notifications through emails, right? But do you have notifications through like the app or anything?

He's like, no, I was like, Maybe we should look into doing that. And he was like,  I hadn't even thought about that. And I was like, well, there we go. 

And so  it's funny because whenever we think about being podcasters, we don't really realize how influential The things that we're doing actually are.

Like how surprised are you? Like when you go to like the conferences, and people recognize you,  because I remember like seeing you at the 2023 conference and you were just like,  people know me,  

it's, yeah, it's weird. Because   while I do interact with people through comments and stuff, I don't have. 

Not super active on like social media or anything. And I don't plan to change that really. Cause I, especially this time of year, not a good time of year to be on social media. Apparently like every four years or so I have this really negative experience on social media. I don't know what that's about, but, uh, I'm going through that right now.

So I'm like, I don't have any plans to come back. But one of the,  it's  weird when one of the things I've consistently heard from guests on the podcast is they're like, Hey. Thank you so much for  having me on. I had like an actual uptick in my business. I normally don't see going on to podcasts and I'm like,  Oh man, people really trust me.

I really need to be  a cognizant that people trust me. I can't just do whatever, you know, I had some episodes where I'm like, I'm going to pull this. Cause this is not, Really what I want because it was  less science based than I thought because, sometimes I like I'll be having a conversation.

I'm like, oh, I'm just mentally pulling out what you're saying. That's valuable and tossing away. What's not. And then, you know, like on reflection, like, oh, not everyone's doing that because they don't have all the same background knowledge that I have  and so I'm like, okay, if I'm doing that, I need to be much more cognizant of,  That people are listening to me and they're trusting me.

And while that is what I want, I have to be, it means being even more careful with what I say,  who I have on.  

What's been some of the things that when you heard it and like, not to call out anybody specific or anything like that, but what's like, what's some examples of things that you've been talking to somebody and you're like, Oh, that's actually not safe.

Or that's not something I want to promote. Examples that you can give that don't completely call out whoever did it.  

I can do the one. I just, I never published it. Like I recorded and I never published the episode because it got way too much into people talking about  what having like a healthy ADHD diet would look like.

And I was like, these aren't, there's nothing in literature that says that this is correct,  

right? Yeah, we see that a lot with like the carnivore diet and paleo diet and things of that nature. I see a lot of that coming up in the Men's ADHD Support Group and like, look, Yeah. There's actually probably, there's a lot of science behind like, okay, these are  not  like horrible, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're safe either.

You know, and so I definitely understand that one. 

Yeah. And there's just people being like, this is going to cure your ADHD kind of stuff. And I'm like,  if you do something and it cures your ADHD, you didn't have ADHD. You had something else that was presenting ADHD like symptoms.  And so that could help someone, but that is not,  that's not what is really the right thing to talk about here.

Yeah. Curing ADHD is, I see that in the group and like, how do I cure my ADHD? And especially my ADHD parents group that I run, like how do I cure my child with their ADHD? And like,  Hey, your, your child doesn't have like a disease or anything like that. Like, how often do you hear that, that kind of concept?

Like,  How do I cure it? like. But not from not from guests I have on the show regularly, fortunately. 

Cause that's not the kind of like, I do have people that like, apply it. I'm like, I remember one person I had send me emails and I'm like,  what? You're a disbarred doctor. There's no way I'm having you on my show.

They, they, they cured ADHD with progesterone, I believe.  And I was like it's  like one of those things I kept looking at, like, I initially looked at him, like, no. And I'm like, I kept looking into it more being like,  what is going on here? This is insane.  

Yeah, I definitely understand that one. The amount of things out there that kind of keep coming up in the world, whenever I'm looking into it, it's giving children CBD and you know, like THC  with CBD in it.

It's also like all of the different supplements and the different things like that. And like, I'm like, y'all, yes, there's some benefits to a lot of this, but y'all are,  y'all are doing some harm as well as stuff like that, like. I definitely understand where you're coming from there.

Yeah. I was really surprised recently. Because I was doing a, I've been doing some episodes on ADHD research, what it is, how it's funded, how everything around  ADHD research and how it works, you know, what the paper is and what's in a paper. And  one of the things that I was like, I'm going to definitely need to spend some time on is  there is a lot of ADHD research that is funded through pharmaceutical money. 

And so that makes people really nervous and  not exactly unfoundedly. So, 

right. 

There have been a ton of like negative things that pharmaceutical companies have done. If you go from like  

oxycontin, yeah. Opioids, yeah. 

Insulin, all these things where you're like, they are definitely putting profits over people a hundred percent. 

And so I was like, okay, so this is a problem. Let me look into what is actually happening here. And I'm like, okay, so we'll first  most ADHD research is actually government funded through the NIH. 

Okay. 

That's great to know. They have a lot less of a bias. Like it's there. Could there be corruption involved?

Sure. But  that's not  the immediate concern. 

Right. 

Then you're also like, okay, then a lot of the drug trials are mandated by the FDA because  they have to prove that they are not harmful and that they are. They're safe and they're effective. Like that's like the, before you can market any of these pills. 

And so then I'm like, okay, well, if that's the case, let's see,  we know these other negative things with pharmaceutical companies.  Do we have any evidence of actual negative things with  ADHD research? And that's,  I didn't come up with a lot of stuff that was credible, 

right?  

It was really, I was like, Oh, this for as much crap as they get, this  Like the stuff that I like, they're too aggressive with marketing Adderall.

And I'm like, okay, that's.  Fair, but I don't marketing is marketing. Like that is pretty much too aggressive,  especially in today's age. I'm like that that's fair. I mean, even like we talked about the opioids a minute ago, that was also something where they were too aggressive with the marketing, but I'm like,  not great, but it's not a deal killer for me anywhere here.

And then I was like, okay, well, and then they're like, well, there's  DSM  5 board included a lot of people that had ties to the pharmaceutical companies. And I was like,  yes. And they're like, and they made the diagnostic criteria for ADHD too inclusive. I'm like,  that's, I don't agree with that. And then there were some people that were mad that they're like CHADD had got money from the pharmaceutical companies and then they were trying to make move amphetamines from schedule two to schedule one.

And I'm like, that's. The ADHD community wants that. 

Yeah. 

Like that is, it is hard to get our medication. We would like it to be easier. 

It's not just that though, but you think about the industries out there that require, drug testing for driving. So truck drivers and things like that. I mean, we see a lot of this in the men's group and I know you've heard about this a lot is been like drivers who can't get medication because if they take them, then they are,  they're grounded.

They can't, they can't fly planes. They can't drive trucks. They can't. Do any of these federally regulated jobs because of the medication that they're like required to take to be able to manage their ADHD,  you know, that's a big deal.  

Yeah. And so,  and yeah, so I like looked at all these complaints and I was like,  okay, the, one of them has some water and it's all, but it's not.

Serious. It's  could be better, a better situation, but I don't think there's much you can do about aggressive marketing, 

right? I think the only real negative studies that I've seen about ADHD medications almost always revolve around, like I can think of one that was done in Australia that was based on addiction levels and they were testing Adderall on neurotypical people and how addictive it could be.

And the negatives that come from abusing  Adderall. And I remember there was a big kerfuffle whenever that came out because they were like, Oh, look, it can cause cardiovascular issues. And I'm like, yes, because they were testing it on people who were. Taking three or four times the recommended do highest recommended dose.

Mm hmm. And some of it was in, like, snorting it. Yeah. I mean, yes! If you abuse a drug  There are hazards to that. It's like,  like, that doesn't matter who it is, but if they're abusing it, then that's a legitimate abuse of the drug, but like, whenever we're looking at medication that's being used by, what's being diagnosed and being used in responsible ways, and it's being held within the guidelines that we have,   the opposite is most likely true, because they you.

Put the guidelines at a lower level of what is most often effective for medication usage for a lot of people.  And this is what y'all really need to be looking at is like, what are the most actually effective levels of medication that people actually need? Because the range that we have that's mandated by the FDA is often on the conservative low end. 

And there's people out there who need twice as much because that's how it has to be used to be effective for them. I'm like,  So yeah, definitely some work that needs to be done as far as that, but it's really cool to know. And now I actually have to go back and I'm on a backlog of you. I think I'm like 13 episodes back on my backlog of listening to you.

So now I have to go through and listen to those because that sounds like really entertaining.  No, it's 14 episodes. Shoot. Anyways.  

I'm a little concerned. My last one ended up a little more dry than I wanted it to be because I was literally just like reading through like what a paper is what you have. If you want to read a paper, what you should look for.

And also just kept reiterating this point. If you want to know about ADHD research. Don't go read peer reviewed journals because you don't know how to read them.  

As somebody who reads them for shits and giggles, I definitely get that one.  I find them hilarious and fun to read, and then of course I go to talk to my wife about them, and I'm like, hey baby, I gotta tell you, did you read the one I sent you a couple days ago about the ADHD medication? And she's like, no. No, I didn't read it. Do you understand how mind numbingly stupidly boring those are? And I'm like,  no, they're great to read. Look at the numbers. Look at all the different statistics that I've like, you not see the chart that shows the correlation, but she's like,  This is how I know you're autistic.

And I'm like,  what? She's like, this.  You understand that nobody else finds these things interesting. I'm like, I have friends of mine, it shows how many of them have ADHD  and or autism. And I'm like fair points.  So like, look, it's numbers that prove things. That's great. It makes me happy.  Oh, man. 

So I was just like, yeah, to  make sure that people don't take the wrong point from that too.

It's like, I'm just saying that like when people go and read journals, very casually, that, There's a lot of places that you can misinterpret results because if you don't know the literature ahead of time, 

what resources do you suggest people use that does break those kinds of things down into like manageable chunks or things like that?

Well, that's my next episode that I haven't written yet. Spoilers which will come out before this, but again, have not spent the time. But yeah, I mean, CHADD is a great resource for finding stuff. They have things. And then, I mean, the whole point of this too was to be like, Hey, this is how  most people aren't going to go out of their way to look for stuff. What's more likely happening is that they're going to have someone on TikTok pop up on their feed and they're going to see something and they're going to go, This study says this. And  I want you to be able to just take a look at the study and go,  that's a white paper from a pharmaceutical company.

I don't know if I trust that. Or, that's a book that no one has cited and being able to like, oh, okay, there are red flags for what I should trust and shouldn't trust when people are citing sources.  And because,  you know, even if you go to like, read like Additude Magazine, there are going to be some things where you're like, is that really true?

And then you're gonna have to like, what does that mean in the broader spectrum of what I want  to know, understand from ADHD research? Because  is this new research that's just coming out or is it something that's You know, part of a larger body of evidence.  

Yeah, definitely understand that.

I find myself going down the rabbit hole of the backlinks whenever I go to Additude Magazine. You know, because they actually do a great job of like citing the sources and everything. And so, I'll find myself like, Oh, what? Click? What's this mean? Oh, cool. That's a new article. Oh, there's another one.

Click. Like, and then all of a sudden, 14 hours later, it was like, Oh, okay. I'm fully versed on all things. Neuro chemistry  is like, man, I lost myself a couple of days ago on that one. So, yeah. 

And, but then, yeah, you can also be fine things where you're like, I'm like, Oh there's this one stat I hear all the time of like, ADHD children receive like what, like something like 10, 000 more reprimands in the, well, 

20, 000. Yeah. 

Yeah. And I was like, Oh, I want to look up where that stat came from. And I think it's William Dodson that said it, but it was just like something he said in a thing. There's no research behind it. 

Yeah, and it's actually based off of a thing I can't think of her name, but it was a lady who said it in 2005. 

And then William Dodson quoted her, and then it got attributed to him.   And like, it makes sense. Like, but again, this is my bias speaking, but anyway, and it does make sense. But like, where's the study that backs that up?  And she was speaking to her personal experience with  helping children with ADHD. 

And like the views that she had seen and the parents and their complaints and all of that stuff. And it was just a combination of all the different things she had heard by parents over the years of her studying it. And then, of course, it was also said by him and I was like, so this is people's anecdotal experience.

that they're using to justify the statement that they made.  Could we do a study on that? That's where my brain immediately goes like, Hey, who do I have to talk to, to get them to actually do a study about that kind of thing?  

Yeah. I'd kind of like to see studies on that. And I mean, I'd love to see like a more  open source ADHD research like consortium kind of thing.

Man so.  So a few of my buddies and I crashed the research round table at the 2023 international conference last year. And like, we're not researchers. We don't wear white coats. None of us are lab rats, nothing. We rolled up in there like we knew what the heck was about to happen and we just sat down and as we were sitting there and we were just listening to them talking about it and everything like that, me and my buddy looked at each other and Adam Pena and Braden Young, we were just sitting there.

We were looking at each other.  We actually know what they're talking about  and of course me. 

I get to use my, my abilities for, I get, I'll say good in this case. It was like, I just popped in, let me be socially awkward here and be like, be a weird guy in the corner, like, Hey, just curious. Like, why don't y'all do studies about this kind of thing?  And of course, in this room, there's a whole bunch of researchers and there's a whole bunch of different people who are like scientists and stuff like that, and then there's a couple of editors.

And the editor pops up, he goes, it's really hard to get stuff like that out there, because if you're not able to get a professor, who's a written professor  to actually co write with you, it's really hard for you to get your research into the papers that are out there.  And then of course that started the conversation because the lady popped off and she goes, do you mean to tell me that the reason why my papers aren't getting put into journals is because I don't have somebody who's already an author, a journal writer? Co writing it with me. He's like the reality of the situation. Yeah.  He's like nepotism is the name of the game in the journal writing industry. And I'm like, and I'm sitting there going,  Oh my gosh.  So when you're sitting here talking about papers and how they're getting put into the system, like  how much research is out there that people are doing?

That isn't being put into journals simply because there's not enough old white dudes who are willing to put their name on it. 

Yeah, and submitting to journals is expensive. It's not a free resource for them. Journals make a ton of money and do not pay the scientists for that. Yeah. 

Yeah. So that's what I think, that's why I think things like Additude Magazine and chat are so important is so many researchers are starting to understand that their research may not be able to get put into journals, but here's resources that they can submit and actually have medical reviewed.

And while it's not a journal, it is a resource for people to use to kind of submit things like that. So  really looking forward to that. 

Just this is also  not on topic for what we're supposed to be talking about, but very relevant here. Is a thing I saw with that recently that was studying. 

So they took a study of. 400, 000 researchers and saw where they were,  within five years of publish their last published article and or of their like first published article and 80 percent or so we're out of academia, like they weren't doing any more research  because. The private sector pays so much better than actually doing research.

And I was like, Oh, that's a problem. 

Yeah, 100%. 

 So let's kind of switch subjects. I'm  super curious about this one.  What's some of the myth and misconceptions about ADHD that you keep having to come back to 

 that's  trying to think of what I have to come back to versus what. 

I, because I'm like, there's like, you know, the  pop culture, stereotypical ADHD stuff. That's like, I don't have to hit that much as much anymore. 

But I think 1 of the ones that I personally keep coming back on is that this idea of that being  is it's not ADHD. It's just that you're lazy. And. I think  that is personally something that I keep coming back to because of its internalized messaging that I've received throughout my life.

And I think that's a more, more important part about myths. It's like, not what do other people say? What do we say about ourselves? That's not true.  And I think that one is the huge one. Cause we're like,  With executive dysfunction, it can feel like we're being lazy.  It can look like we're being lazy.

It's like, I really want to do that thing, but I'm not,  or even, I don't even really want to do the dishes, but I know I should, I can't get up and do them. I'm like, and that's like, that feels like the definition of laziness is I'm not doing the thing that I know I should be doing,  but it's not, it's, I want to do them, I want to get up, I'm like, I don't want to have a messy kitchen.

I don't want this existence.  And so fighting this like  myth of laziness has been something that I come back to a lot because it's something that I know  resonates with a lot of people because then they, when they hear that, they're like,  it's this lifting of a burden that's been on them because  doesn't help to say that you're lazy. 

There is no,  nothing you can do about being lazy, except being just go and do the thing.  So when you're like, man, I'm just lazy and I don't do it. And you're like, well, just do it.  That,  that doesn't help.  And so when you go from this lens of executive dysfunction, instead, you're like, okay, so it's not laziness.

I just  haven't having executive dysfunction about doing the dishes. What can I do then that will help get me over this hurdle rather than just saying I should do it. And then you have options like  listening to music, putting on a podcast, making it fun dishes for time and doing all that kind of stuff where you're like, oh, I need to do something different.

It's not. Laziness. It's about finding out what I actually need to do here. 

Yeah. There, that reminds me that there was a, probably a meme or something like that, that I read is like, if you were, if you were being lazy, then you would enjoy what you were doing instead  and like,  and of course, like I'm reading that and I'm like,  you know what, no, I'm spending like two hours beating myself up and scrolling through social media. 

Like, yeah, I'm scrolling through social media, but I'm also like, like internally, I'm just like whipping myself to death for not getting up and doing the dishes.  And like,  like there's, there's no, it's just mindless scrolling. I'm just doing that instead of the thing that I know I should be doing. 

Yeah.

It's like, I don't want to be doing this.  And I'm like, okay. And even if I like, I'm like, okay, I'm going to put my phone down. And then I'm like,  I'm still stuck. 

There's 

a  

spot on the wall that I've stared at for 15 minutes now.  

My dog is on my lap. I don't want to interrupt,  make her get off.  Not that she would care at all.

Cause you'd go to another spot that she loves. And 

right.  

It's yeah, it's,  but yeah, I think that's a great point. Like, yeah, it's, it's not.  If I enjoyed what I was doing,  that would be, and even if I'm enjoying what I'm doing, that doesn't mean that  not doing something else was me being lazy either.  I was like,  cause it's  this weird, like Protestant worth ethic that we've like built up where we always have to be productive  and  that's not true.

That's in fact a bad advice. It's a bad idea to try and never stop working. It's like, okay, I need to take breaks. And then if I'm mindful of when I take those breaks and I can enjoy them. That means I have less executive dysfunction and can do the things that I want. So, if I am feeling executive dysfunction, maybe the answer is not  figuring out the thing to go and do the dishes.

Maybe it's figuring out how to be like, okay, I'm not going to do them right now. I'm going to take a real break right now  and enjoy my break and get recharged so then in half an hour I can do the dishes.  

That's, that's something I've actually had to help a couple of my clients understand, is like, hey, it's okay to just take a break and rest,  and like, and it, like, my common mantra, and you've heard me talk about this before, is like, you need at least one hour a day where you don't have to do anything. 

Like, you don't have to pay attention to your kids, you can have your quiet space in your room, you can play video games, you can read a book, you can go for a walk, you can do anything that you want to do without being bothered by anyone. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. Like, one out of 24 one hour out of 24 hours is that you should be doing something nice for yourself.

And then, like, one day a week, you Where you get to go do whatever the heck you want and you get to go mess around and do all the things that you want to do. That's okay. You know, you, this is something you really should be putting into your life. And like, this is, that's part of resting. That's part of recharging.

It will make you more productive in the long run. You know, especially when people are just dealing with that same kind of work ethic in mind, I think I had a guy who was mad at himself. Because he was going to school for his master's degree, he was working two jobs, and he still didn't feel like he was doing enough  to to make enough money to provide for his family. 

And I'm like, 

you know,  do you, like, Do you feel like this is sustainable? And he's like, yeah, but I, you know, how can I make more money though? I've got to make more money. Like what, what, what kind of passive income can I put in my life? I'm like, I don't know,  take a nap,  just take a nap, like  go relax. He's like, that doesn't make me any money.

I'm like, technically speaking. Yes, it does. I said, because it'll make you more productive and if you're more productive, more efficiently, then you'll make more money.  Like, and it just didn't resonate with him. It just didn't lock because he was so locked in that mindset you're talking about.  

Yeah. And it, I mean, it is hard to get out because it's  so much of this like built up society expectation that you don't.

That if you are not doing that, it is 

bad that you are morally failing, like one of the tropes. I hate the most when I see it in fantasy and science fiction and stuff. It's someone that's like, stayed awake for like 4 days it's the battle and they're staying awake for 4 days because they're  That's how they're going to like save the day is by never taking a break.

And I'm like, that person is fucking useless at this point. 

Oh yeah. 100 percent they're currently hallucinating.  Those are not bugs. They're shooting at, those are their own troops.  

Yeah. And so I'm like,  yeah, when the trope goes, yeah, they're never going to take a break again, because that's not how I'm like,  

I hate this. 

So what do you do to take breaks?  

So. I mentioned earlier, take walks. That's one of the easy things. I live very close to I live in a nice walkable neighborhood that also has paths that go out into the forest. So I can like go and be in nature, which is great. Listen to podcasts while I do that. I also will  do Lego sets.

I love Lego sets. Doing those while I'm  taking a break being like, okay, I'm gonna take some time off, do some Legos, got some behind me.  It's a fun one  there's so many Legos in my house, both my kids love Legos now and then have my own and they're like, I'm going to take your sets too. And I'm like, no,  these ones are not play once 

you have 

thousands of others. 

And  of course, video games are. A great break. When used  appropriately can be sometimes get to that thing. Like this is the only thing I want to do. Okay. That's a problem. Now. I need to figure out how I can do other things because if I'm only doing video games, then I also don't enjoy it.



And just  doing TV shows and stuff. And I also really like, ultimate Frisbee. 

Yeah. I was going to say, are you still doing that? Because last year you hurt your leg pretty bad  and then you had to take a break. 

Yeah, it's there's a group in my area, but they don't meet  all the time.

And so it's hard to like,  Both plant, like they're like, we meet some weekends on Saturday or Sunday. And I'm like, well, that makes it really hard to plan with kids, whether I'm going to be available or not.  

How many of the leaders have ADHD? 

I mean, that's one of the funny things of like  being in my age group and the number of people I've met that I've been like, I've gotten along with. And then later they're like, Oh yeah, it turns out I have ADHD too. And I'm like,  I am not surprised.  

I think that's one of those things, Amy kind of touched on earlier about the DSM five being too inclusive and everything. 

And I know this is going to  shift the conversation and everything. Do you  ever feel like your knowledge of ADHD is  like hammer and like you keep seeing nails everywhere?  

Sometimes. Yes. I'll be like, Oh, that looks like classic ADHD. But then  I try to view it as  one of the things I'm like, ADHD is so internal.

I don't know enough about why you're doing the things you're doing to always be like, that's the right diagnosis. But  there's definitely  I've been like listening to a podcast or something and go, that person,  100 percent has ADHD. They, the way they are describing their life and like their struggles, that is what ADHD is.

And but then I like go step back. I'm like, Oh, but what if I'm not seeing the whole picture?   Cause there are so many things that mimic ADHD, like sleep apnea, like something a lot of people with ADHD have, but also is having no, having crap sleep, you will have the same symptoms as you have with ADHD. 

Yeah, I can't tell you how many podcasts I've been on in the past three years where we're having the conversations and I'm talking about the things that I've gone through and the things that I've seen with the men's group and the things that I've seen in dueling minds and talk about ADHD and autism and dual diagnosis and how many people like either midway through the conversation that's one of the more popular times where they kind of sit back and they're like,  Yeah, we were going to be talking about this, but I need you to really help me understand ADHD better, because what you're describing and what my life has been like,  has been really similar, and I'm like, well, in the back of my head, I like, I really do try my best to like, not treat every Nail, I'm the hammer whenever I'm thinking about the ADHD, but what I do  try to do is just kind of make sure that I am being very cognizant in presenting ADHD in the most  like  accurate way as I possibly can. 

And I have that joy because you and me, we both have a really good understanding of the DSM 5 and the diagnosis and stuff like that, and we're not doctors or anything like that, but we are well educated enough to be able to at least explain it in a way that other people will understand it, which I think has been one of the biggest keys to your success is your ability to explain it to people in ways that like really are easy to grasp. 

How did you learn to , or is this always, it's been something that you've been good at, like to break these concepts down into the ways other people would understand as easily as they do.  

It is  not something I had always thought of as a skill  because it is me  just trying to be like,  break out my thought process being like, Here is,  and I mean, when I do my writing, I will do write a first pay draft of something that is never going to see the light of day because it makes no sense.

It's I do typically don't write very linearly when I'm doing my first draft. I'll be like, Here, so I'm doing this. I'm like, oh, but I also need to talk about this and then I just, okay, but we'll come back here and then go down here again and 

drive a neurotypical person mad to try and follow that train of thought. 

I've given my wife my first draft since she's been like, what the fuck?  

It's like, where did this come from? I'm like,  I'll give you my third draft from now on.  

And I'll be like, be writing back. Okay. I'm going to put brackets here.

Like talk about this thing because I don't want to talk about it now. I'm thinking about this other thing, but I don't want to forget that. I need to talk about this thing. And that's always fun when I run into those while I'm recording an episode and be like, Oh no, I didn't find that part. And now I have to like, stop recording and actually write a couple sentences here. 

And then be like and then I like, we'll be doing it. But, oh, I did. I did a paragraph later. I said that, shoot. Now I have.  What, which one do I want to use now? 

The joy of editing. 

Yeah. Right. I'm like,  people are like, he sounds so professional. I'm like, you didn't want to take, I'm like, Nope, that didn't.

No, no. If you heard me report, you would be like,  you do this professionally. What's wrong with you? 

Not to like tangent, but I am super curious about that. I've actually heard about a number of podcasters who like have on their Patriots, like the P the people are allowed to come in and listen to their first recordings before it's edited.  And like people get really surprised, like, wait,  this is like four hours of recording to put out like one hour of recording. 

And like,  yeah, it  is not often that you get that much, great content from like a little bit of time. Like there's usually kind of a big split up like that. So   you ever thought about doing that, letting people into the creative process.  

I don't think they'd like to hear all my coughing and burping that I do while I'm trying to get air out of my body. 

Like, I like, I have an editor, so I'm like,  I'm gonna have to cut this out because I don't want to send this all to Stefan, he's not gonna want to hear all this crap, because it's gross. LIAM 

LAUGHS Oh my god. TRAVIS 

I'd say it 

was a 

little 

sore 

ass 

throat, 

too. LIAM LAUGHS Yeah. It'd be like, when I'm like, get to a word that's just a little bit longer than normal and being like, okay, I need to say this word six times to. 

Lexi  Graph  Lexa l Graphical, there we go. Instead, right now, let's say it in a sentence and then there was that blah. God, I can't say it. , we'll talk, I can say it individually, but not with other words around it.  . That was last week. So you mean, so yeah, I have not really thought about doing that part of, because I'm like,  maybe for interviews it would be fun and fine and Okay.

And like I could have people like, be like, Hey, submit a question. But for  the monologues, it would be  bad,  especially I think I'd be more in my head about how I'm doing it and 

yeah, lots, lots of swearing,  

lots of swearing. I love that.  So  when you've been doing all of this, kind of like moving us back into the actual conversation of the interview that we're doing right now what's been like the most rewarding part of this,  

I would like to say that it's helping people, but  it's really my own benefit of just  spending the time to think through these things for myself and, like, actually helping my own ADHD processes out.

Most of the episodes are, like, I do listener questions and I do interviews, but a lot of the episodes are me being like, I am having an issue.  Let's solve it  and that has been really helpful for me to be able to  spend the time to not only figure out a solution, but then like  really dive into what that solution entails and why I want to do it that way.

And how it  is a,  I think one of the best things is it then make forces me to view so many of the things I am trying to deal with through the lens of having ADHD rather than the issue by itself.  

Yeah,  I definitely understand that.  I definitely also identify with that a lot, like a big chunk of why I do the work I do with the nonprofit and why I do coaching and all of that stuff is. 

Primarily, it helps me stay on track of keeping up with my own stuff,   because I'm constantly reminding myself of the techniques and tricks and tips and all that stuff that I'm helping other people actually put in their lives like, Oh, hey, maybe I should remember to do that myself,   and  keeping that kind of stuff in mind with my worldview.

It's working it into my actual memory core instead of. just being these things that I just ignore or forget about constantly.  And I think that's been one of the biggest struggles I've seen with so many people with ADHD is they don't remember to implement the things that they needed in their lives more because they don't talk about it more.

 And like, this is where that repetitive talking, listening to podcasts here, reading the books, being a part of the community that really does help us because we are constantly talking about the solutions to our problems.  And yeah, definitely understand that one.  

And I also think it really is helpful that  when I'm doing it, I, it is forcing me to into this role of nonjudgmental  commentator,  whereas.

Which is now something that I've internalized a lot more when I'm dealing with self talk is, but initially self talk was a really hard issue with, that I had that it was just,  constantly like  negative talking to myself about why I can't solve this issue. And then even,  getting into things,  like I'd be,  trying to solve something even through the lens of ADHD and being like,  just do these things and, trying to get away from this,  idea of being human garbage kind of stuff. And then,  because then when I, write about, I can't write that about someone else. I don't even feel that way about someone else, so I wouldn't.

But when I'm writing about it, I'm like, well, this is the issue I'm dealing with and I'm not,  Saying they should be,  okay, darn it, reset. 

And then it's that slowly  morphed into my own self talk where I'm like, yeah, let's  how do you solve this? And what,  what are the steps you need to take and being like,  yeah, it doesn't matter if it doesn't even matter if I am garbage,  how do I solve this? Like  that negative self talk doesn't help and it doesn't  matter if it's true or not.

So I don't, just don't do it much anymore.  

I mean, you're taking your subjectivity out of the equation and putting the objective.  Solutions into place.  Yeah, 100%.  All of you out there should become podcasters so that you can learn this lesson and get rid of the imposter syndrome. 

Yeah, no, it's like the imposter syndrome still exists, but like you like talked about, we talked earlier,  what's it like when people recognize you?

I'm like, why  what's going on here?  But the other negative self talk  that's gone.  But yeah, and then I did have that, like I was writing something the other day and it was like,  best advice for how to  work on your ADHD. Start your own podcast,  write a book. I don't know.  

I mean, is that in the future for you?

Like is a book into possibilities?  What's coming for hacking your ADHD?  

What's coming? Well, I, one of the things when we were working together last year, was it last year or the year before that? 

Last year. 

 I,  I have ADHD. I have no sense of time. And one of the things was talking about working with an assistant and that. 

Is  you set me up with some things I didn't follow through with. And 

ADHD kind of a thing. 

Yeah. Like I like I'll do the first step and then Oh, they want something else. I'll get to that. And then a month later, Oh no, do I have to start this process again? I don't know. I'm just not going to do anything now.

But talking with Brendan Mahan and he helped me set up setting me up with someone that he was working with. That guy ended up getting a job. And so then I had to find someone else and was talking to a one of my high school friends. And now I'm working with him because he's I need to get out of my current job and I need something else.

And because of that, I am going to be like, that's part of like my monetization bushes. I'm like, I'm not working with someone. I have to make sure that I can pay them  what they're worth, because that is a value of mine, apparently.  And it's something where I'm like, okay, let's do it. Do some more things.

And so,  trying to work, pushing towards doing a more of a community thing. I'm going to that because now that I'm working with someone else, it's a lot easier to be like, I'm going to focus on this. If you can do these things, this is great. And doing some more community stuff. That's not social media, figuring that out, probably something like a discord.

And then also going to be closing my Patreon and opening up a different kind of place. I think it's Kofi, K O F I, I think it's coffee,  or is it coffee? Probably coffee.  I'm going to have some other content on there. A  change to a pay what you want model. I didn't really ever like the tiers of Patreon.  And because I'm like, yeah, just if you have some money and want to give it to me, right. If you have no money and don't want to give me anything fine too.

 I'm like talking with, I've read about this. Like, Hey. Let's make sure that, that they don't think that more money equals more access. It's all  0 and whatever you want to pay is the same. I don't want to, I  mean, it's like video games. I hate the pay to play model. It's awful. 

I definitely understand that as I play call of duty constantly. 

So, yeah, so that's kind of the way. And yeah, I think a book would also be a fun thing to work on because I've always wanted to be an author.  Since always like I can like  I didn't read until fourth my fourth grade and at that point I started reading way too much 

right 

And then I was like, this is what I want to do. And  so I get some of that through writing for the podcast, because I am like writing every week, nearly every day. And so  book would be good. Just need to figure out what I need to figure out what the idea worth writing about is. So I also, one of the things I don't want to ever be doing is just doing things to make things that don't need to exist. 

Right.  Right. Definitely understand that.  All right, man. Well, 200 episodes. 

This is a huge celebration.  I want to say personally speaking as a fan and as somebody who's worked with you. Thank you so much.  I really appreciate all of the work that  you've put into what you do and what you do for the community and you know congratulations Just want to sit here and say that.

And I really appreciate you deciding to come on our show and talk about it.  And   for all those out there, if you've not heard of William Curb, you should be checking out hacking your ADHD it's on all the platforms out there and apparently  when I talk them into it, a book  

and Episodes are much shorter than this.

So if you're looking for shorts in the short, that's where you should go. 

All right. Thank you so much for coming on, man. Really appreciate it.