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Men's ADHD Support Group
We are a nonprofit organization created to help men with ADHD find community and acceptance by raising awareness about Men's struggle with ADHD and mental health. We are here to provide access to experts, tools, and strategies so that men can learn how to thrive with ADHD. It's hosted by coach & speaker Marc Almodovar ( @wellnesswithmarc ), and Shane Thrapp, Life Coach and Business Consultant (Order_from_Ka0s), among other leaders of the Men's ADHD Support Organization; find out more information about us at www.mensadhdsupportgroup.org
Men's ADHD Support Group
Lisa Rabinowitz - Communication and Relationships
Join Shane Thrapp of the Men's ADHD Support Group in a session with Lisa Rabinowitz, a certified Gottman Impact couples therapist. Lisa discusses the unique challenges faced by men with ADHD in relationships and offers strategies for better communication and understanding. With over 30 years of experience, she shares her insights on managing ADHD within couples, the importance of creating a dedicated communication space, and the significance of understanding each other's love languages.
The session also covers how to deal with rejection sensitivity, the value of therapy, and tips for forming new relationships while being transparent about neurodiversity.
You can also get an amazing freebie from Lisa by checking out this link: https://counselorforcouples.com/improve-communication/
00:50 Meet Lisa Rabinowitz: Expert in ADHD and Relationships
02:09 Personal Stories and Communication Challenges
03:28 Understanding ADHD Communication Styles
14:19 Creating Effective Communication Spaces
21:35 Recognizing When to Seek Help
22:03 Salvaging Relationships: Signs and Strategies
29:48 Building New Relationships and Social Skills
34:03 Funny Misunderstandings and Missed Cues
35:07 Creating Safety and Security in Relationships
38:24 Addressing Neurodivergence in Relationships
42:07 Engaging in Effective Communication
01:02:43 Navigating Love Languages and Neurodivergent Preferences
01:07:00 Healing After a Relationship Ends
01:09:33 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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All right, it's time. So let's get this party started everyone. thank you everyone for coming. We really appreciate it. as the men's ADHD support group, we are here to help men with ADHD. Find the support and care that they need and build a community.
We also want to help educate, them and their loved ones on ADHD and how it affects our lives and how we can change things, how we can manage things more effectively. And to that end, we host these monthly get togethers where we bring in experts who really understand this stuff.
And so this, month we've brought in Lisa Rabinowitz.
Lisa is a certified Gottman Impact couples therapist and relationship coach with over 30 years in the industry. again, we really want to say thank you for coming on, Lisa. Tell everybody about yourself. Tell us about why you do the ADHD and relationships and couples thing.
Yeah, well, it's a great question.
I do the couples thing because I have seen from my own personal, life, the impact that without education and without knowledge, marriage is really hard. And when you throw in ADHD into the relationship, it's even harder. So, I want to make sure that couples get that information and get those skills and get those tools that they need.
And, that's what got me started on this path. And it's really been my passion, to see couples move from a place of, feeling like they're exhausted, going around in circles, not getting anywhere, feeling like they're butting heads to a place of most of the time happiness and a peaceful.
Being able to have conversations, and, feel like they feel heard and understood. It's the reason I get up in the morning.
Yeah, I, I'm actually really blessed to, be married to a special education teacher. Like, she knew I had ADHD before I knew I had ADHD, like, when she read my dating profile, apparently.
And, so, like, when we got into the relationship, and we actually started delving into and finding out all this stuff together about my own ADHD and eventually autism, It was a lot of us having to kind of change and reshape our mindset about what communication meant, because now, like, there's actually a reason why, when she asks me to do a very specific thing, I do exactly that thing that she asked me to, without going out of my way to do anything extra with it.
It's because of my literal way of thinking with the autism side of things. I, I literally, you asked me to do this exact thing, I did the exact thing. It did not occur to me to do the other tangential things that are related to doing that exact task. And so, like, how do we communicate that? How do we communicate, like, how do we work around that, the different way of communication, the different way of understanding of experiencing the world?
So it's really fascinating that you're in this realm. I really appreciate it. so talk to us about that. What are some of the differences?
In communication styles with people who have, who have ADHD, both as male, female, what's the differences there,
So, I didn't mention this and I hope it's okay to mention it, but my book, why won't you stop interrupting me is basically. based on the challenge that so often couples come in and what do I hear all the time? Stop interrupting me. Why won't you stop interrupting me? Which is one of the 15 communication challenges that I discuss in the book.
I think this is really important and key. It's not just the ADHD partner. It's not just the neurodiverse. If you have a partner who is neurotypical, I actually have eight things that they might be doing because we can't forget that this is a couple and this partnership, it's like a dance.
When you do this thing, I do this thing. When you do that thing, I do that thing. And as the couple works together, it can be, I feel like we're stepping on each other's toes, or a beautiful dance. And we want to really make sure that we understand what are the challenges that you have? What are the challenges that you have?
And the other piece is that I can have two, two neuro diverse partners. And this one might be having challenges over here. And this one might be having challenges over there. And so we really do need to slow down. And ask ourselves and notice and become aware. So that's amazing that you and your partner, you know, work had, well, she, it sounds like she had some of that awareness, brought it to you.
oh, wow, that's interesting. And then be able to have a dialogue about the different challenges because there's so many of them.
Yeah. A lot of it was just because. ADHD side of things, right? Whenever I would go to try to explain something to her or something like that and I'd get lost in the conversation.
And she's like, she's ready to go this path with me. And I went on the tangent and she's like, okay, wait, that was a, how did we get here? Like, how do we wrap back? And of course, my memory is, I have no idea what I came in here to actually talk to you about. Right. Something in what I just said was relevant.
right. I always talk about like, you know, your partner probably goes from X to Y, right? And we go X to A to Q to R to S to A to Well, maybe get to Hawaii. I don't know. but it's not linear. It's around and we do get lost sometimes. how do you navigate that?
How would you work with a person to get them to understand that struggle? What you just described right there?
I do a lot of informing, a lot of educating, a lot of trying to bring, for both parties, a lot of patience and compassion that you're coming in with, this is you, this is the way you think we're going to communicate X to Y, right?
But your partner is coming in and they don't understand that they think we're going to do, this path to get there. And usually as soon as I start explaining it, and then as soon as the couple's talking like, okay, there's the example, right? That just happened.
And they go, wow, that's happening all the time. I'm like, yes, it is happening all the time. And now when I think as soon as you see it, you can't unsee it. That doesn't mean that the frustration or the. yeah, we'll just call it frustration. Sometimes upset, another, maybe stronger words can happen. but at least we can see it.
And then when you see it, then you can know, okay, now what do we do? Right? Because if you don't see it, then you can't do the, now what do we do? And so then we have to do the next step, which is, so now how do you want to have this conversation look differently? And that's, that's for each couple could look very different.
It could be one couple, you know, says, okay, you know, talk for two minutes and then let me make sure we're in the same spot. I'm understanding you. I'm with you. now let's go another two minutes. That's one example, but couples, I, I really encourage each couple. We sit down, we try to figure out what's going to work for the two of you because I can't get to the finish line, right?
I'm yay. I'm there. Where's my partner? Oh, they fell a mile back, and, they're still there, right? Like we have to go together. And the only way we're going to go together is if we, you know, make sure that we keep our eyes on each other and really stay together in this communication, which, you know, two neurotypicals just together can have challenges communicating.
So whenever you're having that difficulty, like, when do you need to kind of take a step back and say, I may need some help getting support. Like, we've recognized that there's an issue, right? Maybe, you're coming to these calls and you're kind of like, I know there's something going on.
at what point do you realize that you need to have help or you should seek help?
Right. Usually people seek help when they've tried it on their own, and when they start feeling that level of frustration, or I don't feel heard, I don't feel listened to, I don't feel understood, I don't feel validated, and it starts to get exhausting.
You know, those roundabouts that we all hate, or when our conversations sound like. Didn't we do that conversation yesterday and the day before and the week before that's exhausting. It's using so much energy. And again, you know, I always say when you get into a conversation, usually people want to get somewhere right.
and if you're just going around that roundabout. That's going to be a problem for the two of you. So certainly you don't want to wait to the point, but couples do sometimes wait to the point of you're screaming and yelling, slamming doors, not talking for two days. That definitely is a sign that you want to do something now, but sometimes, you can catch it earlier and not wait to that point.
so should people who are in healthy relationships get. Therapy, if they, if they're just kind of touching base and stuff like that, do you think?
I do have couples come in, their relationships healthy, they want to do like, you know, we go in and we have our oil, you know, if we have a car, right, we have an oil change, we have a tune up, you know, rotate the tires, not saying that a relationship is like a car, but in some sense, right, you keep an eye, you know, your car is important.
You want this car to last, you want to be driving that 10 more or more years. well, we want to make sure our relationship also last. So if we're not doing certain things to take care of it, then it might not last. So I usually tell people like it can't hurt. Let's, let's do some things. Let's have some conversations.
And some of those couples will see me. You know, five times, eight times, they'll learn some tools, they'll be like, Oh, you know, put a few things in the closet there. Let's clear out those closets and, you know, talk about a few things. So the closet's not so full. And, they just. Come out feeling like they have, more ability to have conversations.
and as life goes on, things can get more challenging if you have children, as you get older, medical issues, mental health issues, that why not have some extra things to know how to have those conversations,
So what are some of your favorite tools when it comes to communication? Like, do you have like a top three?
So, I talk a lot about listening. I find that people think they know how to listen. And a lot of times their partner will tell them very clearly that like, no, I don't feel like you're listening to me. And what does listening mean and what does.
and so that's part of a conversation I'll have with couples. And then I really ask them, you know, what would it mean? What does it look like when someone listens? And I will say this is one of Gottman's tools and that is, it's not just summarizing. That's a very common thing, like summarize what your partner said.
That's great. And that's, that is a tool. I know that I heard you and I have to tell you sometimes partners will summarize and I go, were you in the room when they were talking? Because. That's not what they said. So it's a great way to check, right? So summarize, you know, like, let's just make sure I'm understanding you,
But then the second piece is they found that they call them the master couples. The really successful, happy couples would validate their partner. Now this is difficult. How does one validate their partner? So sometimes people will say to me, well, I don't want to say that I hurt you. if the person saying I'm hurt about this or I'm upset about this and I'll tell the person, it's not that you're saying, yeah, I tried to hurt you.
Yep. Yep. That's what I did. That's not validation. Validation is that you understand, you bring empathy, you bring compassion. And put yourself in your partner's shoes to be able to really understand their struggle, what they're going through. So I might say something like, you know, I'm understanding right now how hurt, upset, whatever the feeling is.
And then about what, like, what is it that the person's really struggling with? and so that can be. A quick and easy tool. And usually people will tell me the following, wow, you stopped again. You listened to me by doing the summary. And then you made me feel like you really get what's going on for me.
and that's why it's so powerful because frequently this is how conversations look. You say something, you say something, you say something, you say something. I call that the ping pong, but nobody's really listening to truly understand we're listening to respond. and so I'm not really taking in what you're saying.
So that might be more than one or two tools in there. let's play around with that one. Cause I should think there's a lot of value there because a lot of times, especially in the behavioral therapy, when I was, trying to learn social back and forth, and one of the reasons why I really got.
frustrated with the ABA therapy, ABA style therapy that I was in was because it was like, you need to repeat back what the person said, like, okay, that's fine. But do I have to do that with every single conversation I went in with everybody? And my therapist was like, well, no. And I'm like, okay, so when do I do that?
So, like, how can I signal to my partner or how can they signal to me that this is a conversation where I need to feel heard?
Yes. Great question. So.
Actually, what I do is with couples, I'll set up in my book, I call it the nook couples will call it their space or their, you know, cozy areas.
Couples call it different things, but we actually create a space in people's homes because I do only virtual. I get to see all the different things, the dogs that come in, the children who are knocking on the door trying to interrupt while we're having therapy sessions. so I get to really see what's going on, but we create a space where this is where we talk and have conversations.
Because imagine this, we're in the kitchen. I'm doing the dishes. My partner's in the refrigerator looking for dinner. Let's have a conversation. Oh, I will feel so heard and understood in that situation.
You can
All the time? Yes! Right? So, instead, I say, okay, you can talk about, like, oh, you know, don't forget to take out the trash tonight if that's not a big issue for you, for some couples, that's not the best place to talk about it, but let's just make believe for right now that's not a big thing for the two of you.
Make believe. So, you can talk about anything that's light, simple, did you know that it's supposed to snow today? Oh, yeah. do we have the shovel? Talk about that in the kitchen while you're running around trying to get breakfast, lunch, dinner, whatever it is. But when we have something that we really want to talk about, I want you to understand what's on my heart.
I want to understand what's going on for you. Then let's go to our spot. Now, again, If you have young kids, sometimes you can't just like drop everything and go to that spot. It might be like, can we talk tonight at nine? Okay. Yeah. Let's plan. And at nine o'clock, we're going to all show up there and let's sit down and let's have that conversation.
So everybody knows in this space is when we slow down, that's the other thing. There's not a tool associated with slowing down. But that ping pong that does this, like, okay, nobody's listening. Right. So again, I help couples practice. Sometimes I'll even take a ball and they'll sort of toss it gently to each other and really slowly.
So I give them sort of that feel of like, this is how the conversation, if you're just having a normal conversation, not doing what I described really should look like, but if you have that space, we know that's when we're talking about not what's for dinner, but something that's really. I want to be heard about I really want you to understand.
I want really want you to listen. So, does that answer that question?
Yeah. So, you're essentially saying, create the space, right? And have the conversations in that space. So that the person's not. On the phone watching TV, you know, it needs to be a separate space. So when we're communicating with our partners, there's the general conversation, right?
And then there's the, all right, actually, let's have actual discussion. Yeah, this is important. Yeah, so I really like that. That's a lot of things like whenever my wife and I are having discussions about money. That's one of the things that she does. She goes, hey, let's have a conversation later on when you're ready.
Let's have a conversation about money. I just want to go over expectations. Now, she and I have worked on this before. This has actually been one of those sticking points for us. It's like when you say, hey, I want to talk to you about money. I am immediately terrified. Because I'm a stay at home father. I'm, you know, I'm an ADHD coach.
Money is not always the greatest for me. There's times when, and so I feel guilty a lot, so. But, she and I had a discussion. Hey, if you need to talk to me about money, set up time with me. Like, let me work up to it. And then let's have that conversation, making sure, like, I'm able to focus on what you need.
And like, back and forth. And, it's not always negative. That's the other thing that I really appreciate about her, is that she really tries to make sure that, like, it's not us just saying, this is when we talk about the bad stuff. this is when we go and have conversations, period.
And like where she wants to feel heard and what she wants to say good things too, that she makes sure that, that this is not just the bad place. It's a place where it's just a discussion. And all we're here for is an objective discussion. As much as we are capable of. Now I guess, harder conversations, like struggles or actual pain points.
A little bit different there, but at the same time, if you already have that space, then it's good. And speaking of ours, it's like the nighttime cuddles just before bed, where we actually are looking each other in the face and actually having a conversation.
So special that a very special time.
Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned because the space that you create, I do ask couples to, have a list of things like, phones are going to be left in the other room or turned off. maybe we want comfortable pillows or blankets or, fidget toys or whatever it is that we need to have in that space to have that conversation.
Go well, it's so, so important because let's set ourselves up for success here.
So
whatever we need, if you need pen to doodle, have pens to doodle, right? Whatever it is and, put the appreciations I want, you know, you had mentioned that it's not just a space to talk about, like, I don't want the, this is our space that we're going to criticize each other, right?
No, this is our place that we can talk about appreciations or gratitude or whatever is important to us. Let's, let's use that space. So. Definitely important. Not just negative because no one will ever want to go there again.
Yeah. So create the space, create the environment, use it for everything, not just negatives.
and a lot of times what, you know, you know, when we're dealing with that is like also trying to communicate in a way that the other person is receptive to. So our tone, like how do we tone, because tone is so important for people with ADHD that you may be distracted and actually. Dealing with like a problem email and you ask us a question, but the tone you're conveying is the problem email, tone, not the, Hey, can you take out the trash, you know, question that you asked.
God, can you take out the trash? Yes. Why are you talking to me that way?
No, I was referring to this email is really annoying, but that communication never happened. It's just like, I heard the tone. You're mad at this, not mad at me. Like, you know, like, how do you check in? Everything. Okay. You're like, how do we have that conversation?
Yeah. I think that conversation is so important, right?
Like, because otherwise, if I think you're upset with me, then I start anticipating and start coming in negative, right? I'm going to reflect that right back. Right. So if you don't ask the question of like everything, okay. Or the partner goes, Oh my gosh, this is a horrible email. I'm really sorry. You know, just upset about that thing.
Not you. Right. This is both of you sharing or asking and getting curious so we can. Not get stuck because, again, that could be a place you guys get stuck, right? Because they all these assumptions.
Excellent. Yeah. So let's shift gears a little bit.
One of the biggest issues that we see in the men's group is men coming into the group and they're already at the breaking point.
We kind of touched on this earlier. They're already at the breaking point. Things are already really broken in a relationship it's really struggling. They're having a hard time communicating. ADHD. Like, what signs do you look for that the relationship is salvageable?
Relationships that are salvageable in my experience is people coming in, willing to do work, willing to do work. When people are like, he's the problem or she's the problem.
My hands are going to be really tied because how do I help you if you don't say, okay, we have a problem. We don't know how to fix this. And can you help us? That is salvageable, but if you cannot take any responsibility, you see that you've done absolutely nothing. You're sort of what we call half out, like looking around what else is going on out there in the world.
That also is a really, difficult sign. sometimes people will say to me, you know, my partner has said. It's over. I don't actually take that as they actually mean that it's over. So let me clarify that because it's important to clarify. When we get upset, get emotionally dysregulated, we say all sorts of stuff, right?
And so we want to be able to understand if that's said in that moment, right, which is Really threatening the relationship. There's a good possibility. It's not true. I'm just sick and tired of this. I'm frustrated. I'm resentful. I'm angry. I'm mad. And so now I'm lashing out at you. We'll come and say it's over because they said that thing when we were in our last fight, I go, okay, maybe.
it could still be salvageable. Are you willing to give me, and I tell people, give me two months, two months, and I've not been wrong up until this point, I can tell you whether it's going to be salvageable. I'll tell you whether it's going to work because this is one of the things, this is one of my tests, don't tell anybody, that I'll say, okay, we meet and we get, I get to know them and then say, okay, I have a two minute exercise or two minute video.
Will you guys do it? Oh yeah, we'll do it. Okay. You know, let me know, come back the next week. Okay guys, so how was that two minute video? We didn't watch it. Did you do the two minute homework? Nope, didn't do it. Now
I know for ADHD, homework's difficult. I know that doing something is difficult. But when we practice it, like, for instance, there's a two minute exercise that I give people, we practice it in session and you go, Oh, that's great. That was really, really helpful. I feel so much better now.
And
you won't do that outside.
Once it really, it really takes 30 seconds. We have to start asking ourselves, it's good. It's good that you're showing up in session, but what are you willing to do to make this work relationship work? You spent five hours, you know, being upset with each other. How about 30 seconds of doing something positive, right?
It becomes clear whether people want it to shift and we, we also know from the research is that the disaster couples unsuccessful and unhappy couples are doing five, excuse me, wrong. Apologize. Less than one positive interaction, less than one positive interaction. So for every they're doing, they're doing almost the same or more negative, right?
So the successful couples do five or more positive for every negative interaction. So you have to sort of notice that. You know, here you are, if you're really so desperate to make this relationship work, what are you going to do? Because if we have this emotional bank account, you guys are overdrawn, right?
Way too much money out of this bank account. You're going to need to start doing things to put positives in. So what are you going to do? I tell people, I can't make you do anything. I can give you try this, try this. And we try them in session and usually people go, Oh, that's really good. I feel so much better, but now you've got to do them outside of session, right?
Because you got lots of between sessions and, it's hard.
So you talk about that kind of stuff and it's ironic because one of the biggest struggles that I've dealt with, and I've actually seen this in friends of mine too, especially with people with ADHD, is, kind of the out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.
We get to a point where we take for granted the person that we're with, and we forget to say the nice things, and do the nice things, and remember to, because it's just not a, I actually had a therapist who told me, whenever we were working on a project together, she goes, and I was the general, like, hey, how do I do that?
And she goes, set a reminder.
Exactly.
And I'm like, what do you mean, set a reminder? She goes, set a reminder to say something nice to your wife.
Yes. And I'm like,
Yeah, I can't have Alexa be like, Hey, Shane, say something nice to your wife. It's just, okay, have it say something else that you attribute to say something nice to your wife.
And so, like, secretly, it's like, do the dishes. It just says, do the dishes. And I'm like, and I've trained myself to and my wife caught on. She's like. Every night at 10 o'clock, you come in and say something sweet to me. Why? And I said, because every night at 10 o'clock, the alarm goes off to go say something.
And she's like, that's really sweet! And I felt so much guilt and shame about this, because I was like, I have to have something to remind me to tell the person I care about something. And then it was like, I have ADHD though.
Right,
like.
No, 100%.
struggle.
Right. This is, why not use that?
I've had people who they automated like to send their partner like different positive messages throughout the day. I tell couples use chat GBT, someone's like, I don't know, what do I say? Go ask chat GBT what to ask or what to say. Right. And I explained it to couples. There is nothing wrong because it might not be in your mind to say something.
It might not be, you know, top of mind. Or you just don't know what to say. So, and, usually couples like your wife are like. Great, you know, fantastic, whatever it takes, because it feels good for her, like, she's enjoying it.
Right. And it's not like it doesn't mean we don't mean it. Exactly. It's like, because, again, like, if, whenever it says it, and I actually sit here and I was like, Hey, what is something I'm really grateful to my wife about today?
Like, what did she actually do today that was really cool? And it actually gets me to think about, like, oh, you know what? She did the dishes for me earlier today. I'm going to make sure I go say something. Right. It's kind of like the same reason why we need to journal, like, to talk about our gratefuls, like, what is something that we're grateful for today?
And, you know, it's not that we don't actually feel good about that thing, it's just we just don't take the time to really acknowledge it as often as we need to. You know, yeah. Okay. Actually, right. Just said it. Thank you very much. Right. That's actually really great. Scheduling an active care is in of it and of itself an active care.
Excellent. Great. Absolutely correct. You know, so I want to shift another gear.
We also get a lot of people come in and talk about how to how to. Make friends and, and actually start communicating with other people to make, like, how do you build relationships from the start?
Like, how do you say hi to somebody? How do you open up in a conversation place? Is that something that you're comfortable talking about? Sure,
I sort of try to meet people where they're at, saying hi. So, for some people saying hi. Is a huge step, right? And we'll talk about, you know, can you think of somebody in your office that you, would like to say hi to, is there, somebody in a group that you attend that you want to say hi to, and then I really start with a.
That's it, right? Like that's just say hi, you know, and for some people they're past that, like, they just don't know. I was actually speaking with someone actually, I think it was yesterday or this morning talking about, you know, I say something, but I don't know how to keep the conversation going.
Right. Which is, several levels up from just a, it's hard for me to jump in there and say something. Right. So we practiced it, Just sat there practicing it. Sometimes partners are willing, even though they're neurotypical and they're like, that doesn't seem so hard.
I just do it. They don't even think about it. And I'm like, okay, I know you don't think about it, but are you willing to just practice with your partner? they're thinking about going to the office party and they just feel like they're going to stand in the corner and not say hello to anybody.
can we just practice? and then usually people will come back and report on how it went for some people it's easier and for some people it's not so easy. So again, I try to bring a lot of confidence and building up the person that, takes a lot of courage to do that.
and just, see really what they need and, sometimes they'll practice it with me. And so sometimes they'll even say to me, you know, the body doubling, which I know we didn't really talk about, which I love talking about, but sometimes, Ask a friend, can you do this thing with me?
and they say, is this really body doubling? I'm like, you can call it whatever you want. You want to practice this thing. So you can call it body doubling if you want. but you're gonna, you know, practice it. sometimes they'll just, You know, they'll have a body double sometimes. And we'll, I know, I don't know if we're going to jump into this, but sometimes there'll be a partner.
Sometimes it won't be their partner. let's just say it's somebody on the computer that's doing their work and they're on their computer doing their work, You know, I'll sometimes say like make up conversations, you know, or even ask chat again, back to chat GPT as chat GPT, like I'm going to this thing, fill in the blank.
I'm nervous or anxious to talk to people. Can you give me like two or three things that I should say? and they come back and they're like, Oh, I didn't think about that. That sounds really great. And it's okay. try to say it in your own words, make it yours and then give it a try and see how it goes.
For the most part, people will come back with positive experiences. I think one of the biggest values that I have found is that, like, especially as somebody with ADHD and autism, it's okay to not be interested in conversations with the things that are being said around you. It's okay to not be involved. Like, if it's not a thing that you want to talk about, you don't actually have to.
You can just follow along and That's okay. now the thing that I struggle with is sometimes a I overcompensate, I take over conversations. I tend to like really drill into them and I have a hard time pulling that back. Now, my wife and I, we have a trick on that.
Like she'll rub my leg. If she feels like I'm starting to dominate a conversation, she'll tap me on the leg. and we did that because I told her I struggle with this thing. Can you help me with it? And she's like, yeah, I got you and that's just her way of. Not having to, confront me, or to call me out, in front of everybody.
it's also just, her helping me. And so, if your partner can go with you to an event, or, things of that nature, it's okay to ask for people to do that.
Right.
Can I tell you a really funny story on that note? Go for it. One hundred percent.
Yours was, your wife rubbing your leg. So I had a part, a couple who was also like trying to figure out what cure they were going to use.
And so they came up with this one. Can I have a drink of water? Right. So they come back the following week. They were at the active, you know, the event and they come back and she goes.
I said, can I have a glass of water? He went and got the glass of water and just continued on the conversation. We all chuckled, because I've had other things like, Oh, it's raining outside, which was the cue and everybody looks outside and it's a sunny day. And everybody looks back at the person like.
What was that? Right? So, you know, sometimes we miss the cue. Sometimes we make up cues and they don't really, they go flat. That didn't work. So you got to play with it a little bit and, I'm glad that you guys came up with something that does work.
What do you think is one of the biggest, successes, or where do you see the biggest success in relationships when it comes to a neurodivergent person with a neurotypical person?
Success, in what way? Can you help me?
what are some of the biggest signs of success when you look at a relationship that's healthy?
Okay.
So we look for, does this couple feel safe and secure? Now, I don't mean like anybody's physically or verbally or anything else doing any kind of abuse.
But there's signs that the relationship is safe. So for instance, you had mentioned that, if your wife said something in front of everybody, that would be very embarrassing and probably even shaming. And that's actually one of the pillars we talk about that we never throw anybody under the bus in public or in private.
That includes ourselves, right? So that's part of creating a safe and secure relationship. Another example, that we make all major decisions together. Any actions, anything we do, we make sure it's good for both people. Can't be good for just one. I'm gonna buy, a 50, 000 car, without asking you or saying anything to you.
But most, most people, they don't have that kind of just money laying around to just make that kind of decision and doesn't really impact both people. So that's another one. Another example is that, other ways to create safety and security. So for instance, morning and night leaving and coming from work, these are transition times that couples who connect with each other.
So for instance, if you're leaving that you say goodbye to each other, you don't just like leave and my partner leave, I don't know if they left for work yet. When we come home that we greet each other that, there's a point of connection actually hugging was one of those that was found to be the most successful talking about against secure couples and couples that feel satisfied and close and connected and actually at the rest of the evening would fight less if they just Welcome to each other home with a hug and not like a hug like this hug.
No, I really hug and brace heart and chest and stomach touching because that's actually releasing certain hormones in the brain that create a bonding and connection and actually will relax the two of you. Hopefully, uh, actually relaxing each other to hold it for 30 seconds or so. And then
you
feel like, again, like I'm coming home.
This is a safe place. The same thing with waking up and going to bed, that these are things that we do for the most part together. I, we talked to couples that, you know, sometimes they don't. You know, I'm not going to wake up with my partner at five in the morning just to say goodbye. If my wake up is at 9am.
Right. How do you make sure that you connect in the morning when you both are awake? Or what about if one of you likes to go to bed earlier and the other one likes to stay up later? Do you tuck each other in, say goodnight to each other? Those kinds of things help people.
Feel safe and secure, just like tonight. Most people, they're going to lock the doors and lock the windows. They feel a sense of safety and security. So there's certain things that we also do that create a sense of safety and security.
Excellent. That's excellent. I really appreciate it. so we were going to open up the floor for some questions.
Are you good with that?
Sure.
yeah.
I do want to ask one real quick from a conversation I saw earlier, when you're dealing with, somebody who doesn't want to acknowledge like ADHD or autism or your neurodivergence, how do you get them to understand this, the struggle that you deal with whenever it comes with, of issue and they don't seem to want to understand it.
That is probably the most difficult situation that I come across. I try, and I know it's very hard not to get defensive and upset. Like, why don't you want to understand me? I normally have found the following, usually two things happen. One, there's some kind of messaging in the other, the partner that doesn't want to know, or isn't curious
Wants to reject the idea or think and I've had people say like, oh ADHD. That's not a thing autism That's not a thing on the spectrum. Oh, it's just all made up right that there's some messaging from their own family of origin So I usually try to dig in there a little bit and try to start Understanding.
Is there something that when they were younger? Happened to them or they were told that then impacts right now in this moment, and I would say 90 percent of the time I find something back there that really is impacting right now and then I try to help the ADHD partner or the neurodiverse partner understand like, okay, this partner is really struggling with this.
Because they were told that their mental health issues, it's not a thing, it's in your head, you made it up, right? So if you were told that as a child, here you are, right? That's been basically brainwashed into your mind, right? So now you have a partner, and you're like, oh, no, that can't be a thing. Oh, try harder, right?
Typical, try harder. If you really wanted to do it, you could do it, right? These kinds of things are messaging that usually happened earlier on. Then there's a few other, you know, I said like, I don't know, I'll say, I don't know if I said 80 or 90%, but that's usually it's about 90 percent of those kinds of things that I find if I start really digging and trying to understand.
And then this other percentage, Can get more complicated of what do you do if someone just
doesn't care?
Yeah.
mean, is that kind of a sign that the relationship is. Really? Yeah.
Yeah. so if we take a ADHD or autism out, like what?
what does that conversation look like if the issue is cancer or another illness? if you're not willing to take the time to understand why I have to have certain nutrients, or I have to go to the hospital for a certain reason, or I have to have a certain medication, that's kind of a sign that.
This is not a healthy place for us to be in if you're not willing to understand or care about that kind of thing,
Thank you for that.
Yeah,
you know, like, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt as much as I can, but then sometimes at the end of the day, even and I do that same thing. I say, if they had diabetes and needed insulin, if they like, and sometimes the person still is not understanding and.
Then you have to decide as a partner, do you want to be with somebody that is not interested, doesn't believe, doesn't care, you know, I don't want to make all those assumptions, but at some point it does get hard to think of like, why are they not willing to listen, understand, read things, you know, there's so much stuff out there now that you can read, you can watch, you can.
support groups that you can support
groups, podcasts, they attend that, you know, so I,
so we have a question from the group, Steven, if you want to come off mute, you can ask your question, or if you want to drop it in the chat, you can feel free to do so.
Hello? Yeah. Can you hear me? Okay. Yeah.
Okay, sweet. so it's not such a specific question or it is, or it's like, do you have advice? So I find what happens. For me with ADHD. So I was just telling my like partners here and probably listening to this asking if there's any more Like things I could be doing. She's like, yeah, you know like further down the line like Kind of asking about more about my emotional world or follow up.
I was like, no, no, don't wait for me to do that I don't think I do that properly and Like train me and I just feel like in general in a relationship one thing that I've noticed I don't know how to get out of is that I get kind of like Because of the ADHD.
I'm
so caught up in my own world. I am unintentionally selfish because I just feel like I'm always kind of struggling.
I always have struggles to talk about. I'm always kind of like trying to manage stuff that like, you know, I think I'm improving, but I think I, you know, unintentionally, like totally those tips of like leaving space for someone else to talk. And also just the straight up struggle of A DHD.
Like just talk faster or like, get to the end of it or something. Yeah. That, I don't dig into someone's world enough or deeper, so any, yeah. Thoughts around that?
Yeah, I will say that I've had many people say like, oh, my partner's so selfish. And to me, I really try to slow that conversation down because first, I don't like anybody being labeled.
it is part of the ADHD, just like you like the spontaneity and the creativity and, you know, these other benefits that are wonderful aspects. Well, here's some other things. And, you know, again, when I'm working with couples, I'll ask them, you know, they're always sitting and they're facing each other having conversations.
And if I see that happening, I might say, to the other partner, like, okay, you see that, he's drifting into his own world or whatever. What can you do to bring him back? And so for instance, sometimes people will be like, you know what, I'm going to just gently tap, tap, tap his shoulder.
Yeah.
I've had, I know this sounds crazy, but I've actually had couples where they put their feet on top of each other and that keeps them more grounded in the conversation. I do lots of fun stuff in my office. I really try to come up with. Creative, hand holding is nice, but it doesn't always, lead both people staying, in the conversation.
I might, I mentioned earlier about the 2 minutes and, put a 2 minute timer on. Hey, everybody here. check in. Everybody here. Everybody here. Okay, good. Let's keep going. Two minutes. Everybody. Again, these are the important serious conversations that we need to make sure that we're tracking and we're together because if you get in your head, like I described in that race, let's go back to that race idea.
You've fallen. You've dropped. So you're never going to get to the finish line together. So you have to track each other. And so sometimes sitting across from each other and being able to see each other's faces helps for some people that they don't like that eye contact.
Right. So with each couple, they sort of, you know, I, Try to come up with some creative things of like, what can we do again? And you gave that example of tossing the ball gently to each other. Sometimes that keeps people really engaged for some people. They can't do that because they want to fidget with their hands and toss.
literally tossing a ball.
I literally
came a little late.
Yeah. I just had a video that went up, I think it was yesterday, the day before and I was, it was very funny because I had a ball in my hands and I thought everybody who's watching this video, if you haven't seen like five minutes before what the couple was doing, they might wonder why is she talking, having this ball in her hands?
Well, it was because I was teaching them how to stay in the conversation and that's why the ball was sitting in my hands. But yeah, there's actually a literal ball. Now for some people that doesn't work. I even had a couple, they sat on the ground and they rolled the ball to each other. They had so much fun with it.
talk when you're not holding the ball,
That's one way to do it. Or just even gently rolling the ball back and forth to each other. That sort of flow and energy between the two of you again. I try different things with different couples to help with that.
And you just, you don't know sometimes what, what will work for one couple doesn't necessarily work for the other one. So I'm going to ask you guys, get creative, say, let's experiment. You know, this week, experiment, let's try different things and let's see how we stay together. Because it sounds like you care about each other enough that you want to stay in the conversation.
Yeah. Just how is the, is a piece. And that's it.
Well, I'm looking at the comments. I know somehow I managed to do it. Like Rhett was saying, I think framed it better. So there's that part where it's like already being in a conversation, but Rhett was saying other exercise to build curiosity about each other's experience as a muscle.
And to me, this applies for partnership and friendship. Like the times, sure. It's like one thing already being in a conversation and one prompt I get for partners, like, please just tell me when something's important to you. Like, cause I'll just word vomit like, Hey, this thing happened to me today. Like, whether it's like, A fricking minor transactions, anything that was emotionally big to me, I would just like volunteer.
So, 1, I definitely learned that to cue people, like, because if I don't ask, it doesn't mean I don't care. I'll just take the question was like, are there exercises to build curiosity about each other's experiences, friends, partners.
Like, remembering to do this, because again, I'll be like. In my own world. Oh, let me just tell you that all these things that happened today, I could talk for like an hour about the 1000 things and moments that I had that happens every single day. But I like, I feel like I don't ask friends and other people enough.
Right, right, right. Again, with your partner, I might say, Okay, you know what, you have five minutes, Stephen, and now I get five minutes. And you know, I want to hear you. I want to listen to you, but you know, to create a sense of we both matter and we both count, or maybe it's 10 minutes or whatever, right?
Like let's, again, it, it, it feels a little artificial, but when you practice that, you'll also start to notice like, oh, okay, this seems like a breaking point. Right. Um, the other thing, totally different piece here is that sometimes when you're in your head and you have all that stuff going on, Sometimes silence or writing saying, hang on a second, you know, I'm going to write for a minute.
And dump it out and then be able to come a little bit more present to the conversation can be something that can be helpful again. You know, it's a little hard if you're not seeing it and knowing exactly what's happening in the moment. But those are things that sometimes couples will do and it can help.
Thank you. Thank you so much for your question.
Especially at first, there's going to be a lot of artificial tools that you put in place to, help you stay in the moment or in the time, right?
Because like I was saying earlier, I have an alert that goes off to remind me to go say something nice to my wife. Now, I should, as a grown ass person who loves my wife a whole lot. Be able to do that. That's the social expectation, but I have ADHD and so no, that's not how my brain works.
Being honest about that with your partner allows them to understand you better and being open about that thing. I am going out of my way to make sure that I have a tool in place to make sure I do what you need me to do.
And like this is me showing my commitment to you is I'm going to make sure that I do this thing. This is the tool that I'm using. And so if your partner loves you and cares about you, how you do it shouldn't matter so much as that you do actually take the effort to do it. So keep that in mind and keep that in the conversation when you're having that with your partner or when you're with your people, like, I have reminders to go off to remind me to message Mark on a regular basis and he's my boss, like, putting the tools in place that we need, right, is important, you know, and being honest about them helps people around us understand the struggles and issues that we deal with and the people who are cool with that,
Are the people who are actually worth your time going forward with. Shane asked a really, good question earlier. about, you know, we've been talking about existing couples, how do we communicate the struggles and, things like that to newer people that we meet?
Like, people were just now getting into a relationship. How do we communicate that without sounding like a loser or a failure?
Again, I want to reiterate the point that, you know, feeling like a loser, feeling like what's wrong with me is something that we definitely want to be able to address if we really ever feel like that.
So I'm going to put that over here for right now. people, when you're first dating them, they love that you have ADHD. They love the really deep focus and the passion that you bring and the creativity that you bring. And the, you know, they love that everything that you bring. So
With all of that, right? There's, there's different aspects, right? There's different parts of it. And so you sort of, I think you have to feel out the other person. Like, I wouldn't be like, okay, I want you to know all my problems. Let me dump them on you right now. you know, if you feel comfortable, right, I think you have to check in with yourself.
Do you feel comfortable, for instance, if you spoke for too long or you interrupted to say like, you know, this is something I'm working on or I'm aware, you know, I'm aware that I have ADHD and, this sometimes happens and I realize that and, you know, whatever it is that you want to say to them. I think for any healthy relationship, being honest, being transparent, without being overwhelming, like I said with the, I'm going to dump everything right now.
Which can sometimes be hard not to dump everything right now and overshare, but It's, it's part of that new relationship where people hopefully start to share, right, like different, they're going to share also, I think that's important that they have their own struggles, right?
So it's you just coming to the table and you have all these things that you have issues with. Trust me, they do too. And sometimes we don't see that or notice that, but they have their own struggles, right? And so we're both going to be here sharing those, and being able to vet the person, do I want to deal with these?
I don't, sometimes we, I think I have couples that feel like they couldn't vet the, well, I have ADHD, so if they can accept me, then, you know, of course I have to accept whatever they bring to the table. No, you don't. No, you don't.
I mean, that's a big deal that we deal with in the group a lot.
We get a lot of guys coming in. And they are very clearly describing a relationship where there is emotional and, mental abuse by the partner who. It's showing a lot of like really narcissistic tendencies, right? I don't like to, I'm not, I'm not trying to throw a narcissism around as willy nilly as we see it too often, but we do see a lot of guys who are dealing with emotional and mental abuse that they don't even recognize that it's abuse and like, they're just expressing themselves, and then they're getting shut down, and they don't feel safe enough to talk about different things like that.
And so, like, going into new relationships with that kind of trauma, A, this is why you need therapy, everyone, by the way. Like, that's a good reason why. But like, going in with that trauma, like, opening up to other people, like, it hurts us. somebody asked in the group about rejection sensitivity, this kind of plays into that facet as well.
we feel things more, by the way, everyone, we feel things more. That's the thing that happens with us. So how do we communicate that rejection sensitivity to people? And, you know, so that people understand how they can communicate with us to make us not feel like we're being rejected. Right.
Yeah. This is something that I deal with on a daily basis and saying, I didn't intend, I didn't mean to, and giving all sorts of explanations, I tell people, do not work. So leave that over there.
just like. On your first date, let's just say the person wore a shirt. You're like,
Hmm,
don't really like the shirt. You probably didn't say anything, right? Or maybe they got a little spill, right? You probably didn't say anything. And I find that sometimes when people get into relationships, they think they can just say.
anything. And people say, well, I'm just blunt. I'm just straight. I'm just honest. No, that's rude and obnoxious and hurtful. So no, we don't say every single thing that comes, you know, it came out. So I'm going to say it now, of course, ADHD might have their own challenges around that.
I was going to say, so as a person with ADHD,
I understand that you might have your own challenge, but we're talking about the other person right now.
I know that's what we're talking about. And what they're saying and, you know, how they say it, well, let's just, level the playing fields that we are both going to need to try to work on what we say, how we say it, because there is rejection sensitivity that we need to take into consideration.
I, again, I hate labels. I don't want to hear you're too sensitive. You're oversensitive. No, that doesn't go here. this is how the person feels. And so a lot of times I'll say, take two, let's try that again. Or, you know, just ask your partner, say that nicer, say that gentler, say it, you know, in a different way,
If we are a partnership that we take care of each other, then I should be able to say that to you. And again, the ADHD partner who might blurt out something or might say something without thinking might have their partner say the same thing to them. Like, Hey, could you say that differently? Can you do that again?
Take two. Let's try that conversation. Can you walk out, come back in and let's start again? Right? Like, you know, that sometimes happens.
It's
okay. And that's what we do.
So, but how do we kind of going kind of touching back into the previous question, though, like, when we're having these conversations initially, though, like, yeah, like, how do we how do we have that conversation to start with, like, I, I'm trying to imagine a conversation like I, I can do it because I've worked on this for years and years and years, but like, How do you have that conversation?
Like I take things literal or I take things like rejection is a big deal with me. How do you start that conversation?
I was talking about like a more committed couple
back
Let's just talk about how we communicate. Let's talk about, how I hear things.
I want you to understand me. I want to understand you. let's talk about it. I think it becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly. I don't like the elephants in the room and we're just going to ignore that, right? It's stomping everywhere and we're just going to make believe we don't see it.
No, let's just talk about it. and so I encourage couples, right? Because it's, it will come out eventually. If it's not obvious, it will happen, right? So being preventive or preemptive, I think is much better than reactive. And now I've, after this situation happens, now I'm going to have to go back and go like, okay, well, that was this rejection sensitivity.
Let me explain that to you. All right. To me, that is sometimes a harder conversation than talking about it earlier on and having that Again, honest conversation, because again, they're going to probably bring something to the table. So, you know, I should be open if, and if the person's like, no, I don't want to deal with that.
Well, why go on, you know, for six months when you just found out about it in the first month? you should be vetting each other and figuring out if the person can manage and, deal with it. I will tell you that people will tell me the following, the partner did say it earlier on in the relationship and they didn't get it, they didn't really understand partners who said in passing, Oh, I'm ADHD.
Oh, okay. Like, you know, pass the butter, you know, whoa, you really, again, at that point, you know, now we're two years into the relationship and we're struggling. We didn't know what ADHD really meant. So again, you know, don't Do it in a, in a conversation that's meaningful and intentional, but you might need to start unpacking that over some time of like, what does that really mean?
And what does that look like? And some people will be like, Oh, you know, can you show me a book on it? Or can I read something on it? And again, keep that one. I, if they want to learn, they want to understand. Terrific. that's a good sign. Check on that. I would say listen to the response to as you're sharing this.
What do they do with it?
Yeah, so there's a lot of value to that. I think if it's okay for me to add something to it, separate yourself from the ADHD. you don't necessarily have to talk about ADHD and autism specifically to you. You can actually sit here and say, Hey, you know, this is one of the reasons why we do so much work in the men's group is to build awareness about what ADHD is and what autism are, like, the more that you know about these issues, the more that you're able to talk about it in abstract methodology, where you're able to inform a person and I, you know, ADHD is, you know, this is a neurodevelopmental issue that I struggle with.
This is what it means for me, right? And if the person is open to it and an example comes up later on, especially like rejection sensitivity or something like that, like, Oh yeah, this is actually a really great example of something I struggle with is rejection. when you said that the way you did, this is what I heard.
can we say that a different way? Is there a different way to have that conversation? Is there a different way for you to get my attention? You know, that all comes from the more that they understand ADHD in totality, the more that you understand it as well, the more that they are able to ask questions and dig into it.
And y'all are able to explore the conversation more, like abstract yourself away from ADHD and autism, and just have a conversation about what those issues are.
Right. And I don't know how many individuals here are either newly diagnosed or don't even know if they have it or not, but I've had people, you know, with their partner go on this journey together.
Like, let's talk about this, like, let's read about it. And they both know very little. They both are unsure. And it. It takes, processing to understand that and like, you know, even some grieving of what my life has been, what it could have been and all these different, that brings up so many things.
And so, if you're in that spot and you have a partner that's willing to do that with you. That's fantastic.
That's a great indicator. Is that partners worth being around? They're willing to go on a journey with you. I think whenever my wife and I really figured things out together was when like, because she knew she understood.
But, like, whenever I told her that I had it, and I asked her, like, why didn't you say anything? She's, like, I thought you were just being a dude about it. Like, she thought I was just, like, toughing out through it and everything like that. And I'm, like, no, I'm just now discovering this. And she's, like, that's a different animal altogether.
And somebody else pointed out, like, You know, other people have struggles in their lives as well, you being open about your ADHD allows them to be open about their anxiety, their frustration, their PTSD, their, you know, other events in their lives that have been traumatizing, like having that conversation abstractly and.
Allows them and being open to them talking about their issue. That's communication. That's what that is. I didn't ever really think about it, because for me communication's always been about the small talk and all that. But it's all the interactions that we have with people. so I have a question for you.
This is, this is from a poll that I'd seen a few weeks ago. What are your thoughts on love languages and how important are they in the relationship?
I love it. People talk to me all the time about love languages. I actually have one or I think two articles on it. so it's not the most scientific evidence based.
idea. But I tell couples the following, it seems to really play out in relationships. I had someone recently, again, I always will change the story, but You know, he decided that he was going to do a getaway, and plan this beautiful short little vacation for the weekend, for his wife's birthday.
she wasn't really happy. Now for his birthday, he would love that, right? And so frequently, what do we do? We do what we like for our partner. She, on the other hand, she wanted other things, wanted a different love language, which was she would have loved if he had written her a long message in card.
If she had, you know, there's so many different things, but hers was words of affirmation. So yes, There's some question on whether this is a real thing or not, but I will say that couples very much share about You know, I like quality time. I like physical touch. And so I tell couples I don't know if there's a lot of scientific evidence based research behind it, but it seems to be real so let's just deal with it and you know understand what your love languages are and
Have you heard about the neurodivergent leveling, which is,
I
Love it. Love it. I didn't know if I should bring it up, but I guess it's very relevant. So there's, in short, I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about it or,
yeah, so there's parallel play in body leveling, like where y'all are just side by side, not doing anything together, just in the same space, maybe both on the phone,
But you're together, the space is together. info dumping, which I'm a big fan of. penguin pebbling is my other thing. penguin pebbling is, do you see, like this, I have a friend of mine, she likes rubber duckies. And like everywhere I go, every time I go to a store or anything like that, if I see a rubber duck, I buy it for her.
She's just a friend of mine. She's got like 40 ducks for me. And it's like all part of her collection because she has this huge collection. That's penguin pebbling. Also we can do that with like little information. We do this with TikToks by the way. Instagram, that one, that one video that you watched that you sent to the person.
There was this joke I saw. Best thing about pebbling, and then support swapping, like, hey, if you do this thing, I'll do this thing for you, you know, that's a love language, and then deep pressure, like the hugs, like, some of us are neurodivergent, where, like, if you touch me, I am offended, and all life is ended, as I know it, some people are like, give me the most deepest hug possible, so, neurodivergent love languages,
I see it every day in my office, these exactly these conversations. So whether you talk about the, the typical ones that came out or these definitely,
figure out your love language and figure out your partner's love language.
Like, there's something to making sure that I do make sure that I go tell my partner that I love her because that's something she wants, that's something she needs from me. She needs to feel appreciated, that I actually do value the work that she does.
Now, as somebody with ADHD, with memory issues I gotta have an external tool to remind me to say something like about that. But what that did was over time, I got to the point of where it became more natural for me. It just took me a significantly longer amount of time. Same thing for y'all, so keep that in mind.
Sometimes people will do the habit stacking too, like, you know, I'm going to brush my teeth and when I'm brushing my teeth right after I'm done, I'll walk into the bedroom and tell my partner that appreciation
Now my teeth are brushed, I can give a kiss.
the end.
how do you, final question, then we're going to wrap it up How do you get back into relationships?
how do you start the healing process if a relationships ended?
the relationship, ended and now I have to do my own individual healing.
Yeah.
I tell, I've had this where one partner decides they're going to come see me for individual counseling. I tell them two things, stay in individual counseling for at least a year because you need to process what happened there.
You need to process maybe sometimes why you picked that partner. So you don't pick the same partner because that is how our brains work. There's something that's familiar why we picked that partner. And I don't want you to now in. A day, a month or six months, pick the same partner, just different name, right?
Different name might even look like that other person. I've had that before happen. That happened before too. But you want to really understand what the things happen, So you pick a different partner. And I tell them, no, if you're going to see me, there is no dating. I give them three months.
I don't want you dating. I want you to focus on yourself right now and focus on understanding what happened, why that ended. So yeah, that's to me, the most important, make sure there's self care, make sure there's also, You know, friend support, the men's ADHD group. I'm sure like you mentioned, you have other people that are healing.
and this is a great place to support each other. So I think all of those things, family support, whatever you need to try to move through the healing. It's very important trying to go into, you know, finding another partner. Addictions is not going to heal you at all. So.
Yeah, I had to take a two year hiatus and rediscover myself after my first marriage imploded.
by doing that, I came to a better understanding of who I was and what came from that was the dating profile that my wife, found and enjoyed reading and actually messaged me from because I did take the time to heal and learn about myself.
Even though I didn't know ADHD and autism were a thing, I just learned acceptance of who I was. And I think that was the biggest key, was like, getting back into that acceptance based mindset of who, who I am. And being happy with that person. At least, as much as I could be. Right?
I also want to be happy with who I wasn't where I was. So keep that in mind. All right.
So how do people get ahold of you? How do they find you? I actually just put your link to your thing below.
Okay. So I think probably I didn't see the link, but I think a counselor for couples is probably the best way.
There I'll give you contact information by email, you know, quickly, I'll just say my email is Lisa R says my first name with my first initial Lisa R at T like Tom T secure mail. com. But it's all on the counselor for couples. I think you have my link. Oh, we didn't talk about the free giveaway.
Can I just mention it really quickly? Yeah, I actually,
that's the link I posted in the chat.
Oh, we didn't see that. I just thought the counselor. Okay. So part of that link is not only that you can check out the website if you have any questions of my book or anything else that I do, but also that I wanted to do a free giveaway.
all about communication and some of the things that we talked about tonight of creating that space and some things of how do you communicate, slow down those conversations are on that giveaway. So I hope that you'll, accept it, and, use it. And I'd love to hear from you. So please, you know, email me back, let me know what worked, what didn't, what you liked, you know.
I'm always open to understand and connect. So please let me know and thank you both. thank you so much for having me today. Thank you and everybody for being here and great questions. And I'm sorry I couldn't follow the chat and.
Talk at the same time.
You did great. We brought all the questions from the chat into the conversation. So, thank you again for this. it was a joy having you here, for everybody who paid, we're going to get this copy out within the next couple of days. It'll be edited and all that stuff. And then, in about a month and a half or so, it'll actually be public on YouTube.
And so I really get to watch the video on YouTube and, and enjoy that as well. So, oh, yeah, and it'll be on our podcast. So it'll be shared all the places. thank you everybody for coming. We appreciate your support. considering the current political climate, we are going to be leaning a lot more on these for fundraising.
we do depend on y'all, so if y'all can please make sure to go to the website, feel free to donate more. If you like, become a monthly donator, we greatly appreciate all of it. And we love all the work that everyone does. Thank you.
